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Mustang Technical Discussion > Pre 1973 > XF steering column?? > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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XF steering column?? Reply to topic

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scott66stang
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You cant flip it upside down because then the idler arm mounting pin would be facing up instead of down.


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unilec5544
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so the pin can't be refitted?


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scott66stang
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Ill have to have another look, but it seems to be welded in or part of the cast.


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Shaunp
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You can't turn it upside down the shape is wrong. You have to cut them. The other thing to consider is that an XF box is not a mirror image of mustang unit, it cant mount in exactly the same spot on the right hand side. So it's not a matter of just connecting the dots. It will bump steer like crazy if you get it wrong. The 67 link is almost the same as an xy in shape but shorter. But the centre holes are so close it makes it the one to use, beacuse you don't have to touch this part of it at least, just the ends. Some blokes just cut centre out of an xy for a 67 but then the centre holes are wrong, and you have to mount the box further foward, and the lower bolt hole is off the rail, or the angle of the box is low and the wheel is in your lap. It's all been tried before you have to cut them to get the bump steer correct, you can actually get it beter than new. You see some conversions where the drag link nearly drags on the ground to try an get the to steer. I ve seen one where it the nut on the pin had worn off from hitting speed hump.
Also Tapered sleeves are not legal, in QLD at least, you have to weld and redrill/taper. I think the best way to do a 65/66 maybe to use the mustang centre and weld falcon ends to it, this way you only 2 weld and 2 xrays.


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scott66stang
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I dont doubt you at all shaun, your the man on this subject as far as im concerned. I myself have a bit of a phobia about cutting and welding a steering component, i know it must be acceptable if it is done professionally and engineered. It doesnt hurt to be explored more to see if there is another way, although im sure everything has been tried.

Neil, it does look as though the pin can be removed with alot of heat, but as shaun says there are alot more bends that have to be reversed if flipped upside down. Two between the centre eyes, one on each end and then aswell each end twisted aprox 30 degrees from the original.
It would be easier with less bending to turn it L to R, fill and re taper the holes and just bend and twist the ends. I will strip down my 67 draglink and get better pics of the XY and Mustang draglinks together.

I am also going to look at possibly a Cortina R&P, although these are getting rare aswell , 4&6 cylders are the same apparently. I tried a comadore power steering and a EB rack on the 66 but they were too long but should be a good conversion on my XY ute. Also non powersteering racks from a VC comadore are easily shortened and used alot on early holdens. I could be wasting my time and will revert back to the XY draglink mod eventually.


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ozbilt
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scott66stang wrote


I am also going to look at possibly a Cortina R&P, although these are getting rare aswell , 4&6 cylders are the same apparently. I tried a comadore power steering and a EB rack on the 66 but they were too long but should be a good conversion on my XY ute. Also non powersteering racks from a VC comadore are easily shortened and used alot on early holdens. I could be wasting my time and will revert back to the XY draglink mod eventually.


The issue with racks in general is they are too long from knuckle to knuckle.

That distance should be the same as where the tie rods join the drag link (as in your pics). That is why the TCP & the RRS r&p are designed the way they are (& the RRS is in violation of the TCP held patent, I believe).


Kerry

"Thank you Boofhead for the wonderful memories"

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Shaunp
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Think you'll find a standard mustang link will not be long enough with an XF box, due the pitman arm design and sweep arc that creates, You can't mount the box in the same spot, it doesn't work that way. The link ends up a bit long then factory, to get it in the sweat spot.


Last edited by Shaunp on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:41 am; edited 2 times in total

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Shaunp
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ozbilt wrote
scott66stang wrote


I am also going to look at possibly a Cortina R&P, although these are getting rare aswell , 4&6 cylders are the same apparently. I tried a comadore power steering and a EB rack on the 66 but they were too long but should be a good conversion on my XY ute. Also non powersteering racks from a VC comadore are easily shortened and used alot on early holdens. I could be wasting my time and will revert back to the XY draglink mod eventually.


The issue with racks in general is they are too long from knuckle to knuckle.

That distance should be the same as where the tie rods join the drag link (as in your pics). That is why the TCP & the RRS r&p are designed the way they are (& the RRS is in violation of the TCP held patent, I believe).

And like wise a drag link needs tie rod mounts in the correct spot. THis is the issue with AOI racks with the built in tie rods they just can't work properly. It's not as simple as it seems to make the work correctly you can't just bolt stuff in. We used to use Austin 1800 racks in Fjs shortened by a heap and weld a mount to the back of HR crossmember. But they ended up about 300mm long. The commodore racks in old holdens done buy the the guy at Narabri, aren't right,but close I reckon. Correction Moree. Thing with a Holden is you have a big crosmember to mount it to. Fords have nothing.


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Shaunp
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Also the father of that Moto Gp bloke, Chris Vanmullen ? any way his old man builds flat head ford historic race cars, to race at Speed on tweed etc he made his own drag links from some bent up bar. Pretty sure it was him. Think his name is Dick Van mullen? Lives up on the Sunshine coast.
Correction it's spelt this way
Dick Vermeulen


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unilec5544
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Shaun it's just when you see the 65 drag link, it's almost a staight bar as this one on ebay.
cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBa...K:MEWAX:IT
it look so simple just to heat and bend, different than the 67, but as you say the Xf pitman arm will be a different length.


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Shaunp
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That one is using a toyota/dato idler I think, won't be right. The link and the mounting points for the box and idler are the most important things to get correct. You can't just use a mismash of parts, that's why plenty of converted cars drive crap.
They don't end up the same shape or lenght in real terms. Idler and pitman need to be a matched set, so the link travels correctly left to right. Other wise toe out on turns will be will be wrong and you won't get the same turns to lock in each direction. If you bend this stuff, like steering arms on stubs you need to magnaflux them.


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scott66stang
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Rather than starting another rhd conversion thread and everyone having to rewrite stuff, i thought i would add to this one and maybe eventually it can go in the tech section for reference. Maybe Neil can change the heading to "RHD steering Info" or something.
I have borrowed what we think is a RHD Compact Fairlane drag link with pitman arm and idler attached. I have been searching trying to find a pic to confirm with no luck so far.
Here i have laid the 67 draglink against the Compact? one. It is exactly the same length but the tierod mounts are spread wider, the piman arm also fits on a XY steering box but not a XF as they have a larger diameter shaft.
I have read that the Ford Australia RHD 65 mustang used a Falcon box and compact Fairlane Draglink but have found no confirmation.
If this is what they used, what was the steering like with the inner tierods in the different position. What tie rods were used? the Compact ones? Did they use the Compact idler set up or the falcon one?
In my pics you will see that the tierod mounting eyes on the Compact draglink are stepped not tapered.
The Falcon pitman arm has the same arc but is bent different
The Draglink itself is straighter between the tierod ends, but from the top looks similar at each end.

67 lhd draglink above and Compact Fairlane(unconfirmed)and facing upside down, below it




XY and Compact pitman arms




XF on left and XY steering box and piman arms




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unilec5544
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Hey Scott,

Here is a picture of my 65 drag link with measurements, as you can see it's very different from the 67. What are the measurements of the compact drag link?

Cheers Neil.



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Shaunp
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Compact fairlane set up is what was used on the cars sold here, they never changed the firewall, just put a plate on the rhs to bolt the master cyl to. They never cut the wireing either they just made an extension harness so it would reach the othet side. Later falcon boxes, are different to early ones. If you can find a compact one you can use it. John Greene stopped using them in coversions, 20 years ago because they were too hard to get, and you can get them better with a correctly fabricated link. There wasn't many RHD comapcts here to start with, there would next to none for wrecking now. The compact link has a ball joint built into the link which wears as well, it's not a good solution, in 2011, while it may been in 1965 cause that's all they had. Trust me guys the best way, is to make a drag link, To suit the use of later model stuff that is readily available, new from any auto parts supplier. It will be a much better car in the long term, sooo much better. 67 on cars have completely different geometry in the front end , so this precludes the use of compact parts, in any case.


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scott66stang
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unilec5544 wrote
Hey Scott,

Here is a picture of my 65 drag link with measurements, as you can see it's very different from the 67. What are the measurements of the compact drag link?

Cheers Neil.

Thats the first time ive seen a 66 V8 one, i only have the 66 6cyl setup which is different again (same as a XK-XP Falcon. The Compact one is 440mm between tierod centres and 105mm to the outer centres. So its different again.


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