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Q&A > General Tech Advice > Megasquirt - a story of injection > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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Megasquirt - a story of injection Reply to topic

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boofhead
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Initial setup - fueling VE table.

The VE (Volumeric Efficiency) table boils down to simply how much fuel to add with out considering modifiers (such as air temp, startup cold period, accelerator pump, etc).

It is just a number but you can calc estimate fuel required so roughly number X needed.
Each car is different hence you do need to tune it.

I do though like to see a smooth graph - for example here is my Mustangs fueling map



It is not perfect but no major lumps. This is more typical Speed Density (SD) while ITB is more involved.

So firstly ITB induction is hard to tune in SD mode as the vacuum (MAP sensor) is often near full air pressure (100 kpa) so it leave little chance to work out partial throttle or WOT - often tuning then goes to AlphaN mode using the throttle position to know what is required. It is mostly better but the problem is you do not know how much air is really being used (which matters at higher revs).

So a trick/feature can be used to swap VE tables from SD mode to AlphaN mode when appropriate can be setup. This is harder to tune due to two tables needing to be tuned and auto tune will not work with it but great once done.

So simplify this the msextra developers added in ITB mode which can switch between SD and AlphaN on a single VE table. This is what I am going to use.

Here is the initial VE fuel map.



This is two maps on one. The main item you will see is a major lump at 100kpa just over idle. Normally I do not like to see it but in this case extra fueling for when the throttle is cracked open is likely to be needed. This could possible be tuned out with fine tuning of acceleration enrichment setting but I suspect we will need to keep it to some degree.



So initial tune all setup ready to run. This map is where the most time will be spent setting fueling levels to match the AFR table. Auto tune can be used - I prefer to manually do it.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

Last edited by boofhead on Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:42 pm; edited 6 times in total

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boofhead
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So what else do people want to know?


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Husky65
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What are people doing for trigger wheels?


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hybrid
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Im using the 36-1 DIY autotune trigger wheel and their hall effect sensor.


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boofhead
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My Mustang and gbx are using a msd remote TFI distributor (no module) as the trigger.
I did a mustang with the earlier TFI dist with module.
SPs will use a msd pro dist locked out.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Husky65
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Ah ok, I assumed you were using individual coils for some reason.

Hybrid, how did you fit the wheel? I have seen people bolt it between the balancer and pulley, and either machine the pulley down a bit or shim the accesories out a bit.


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hybrid
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Yeah mine is between pulley and balancer. Machined the wheel down a bit. The difference in timing stability was amazing.



This was before the supercharger.



Last edited by hybrid on Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:08 am; edited 2 times in total

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Husky65
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Yeah nice. No problem with that particular sensor? I noticed they sell another type also.
I know the AU xr8 timing pointer comes with a vr sensor as part of it, but you need the trigger wheel behind the balancer


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boofhead
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36:1 wheel on the crank is the best but I had though of using a AEM module
www.aemelectronics.com...module-epm


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Shaunp
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Husky65 wrote
What are people doing for trigger wheels?


As Boof said I'm using an MSD Pro billet, I want an old school look, I'm going for the Pete Geohegan 67 touring car look,

www.google.com.au/url?...6889728726


Last edited by Shaunp on Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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nassi
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Are you doing the airbox as well Shaun?


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Shaunp
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nassi wrote
Are you doing the airbox as well Shaun?


Thinking about it, good excuse to buy a TIG, yes I'd like to do it wont be on day one.


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hybrid
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Shaunp wrote
Husky65 wrote
What are people doing for trigger wheels?


As Boof said I'm using an MSD Pro billet, I want an old school look, I'm going for the Pete Geohegan 67 touring car look,

www.google.com.au/url?...6889728726


You don't have to lose the old school look. You can use a 36-1 wheel and still use the distributor to distribute the sparks without using it's pickup.


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lukep6470
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boofhead wrote
Initial setup - fueling VE table.

The VE (Volumeric Efficiency) table boils down to simply how much fuel to add with out considering modifiers (such as air temp, startup cold period, accelerator pump, etc).

It is just a number but you can calc estimate fuel required so roughly number X needed.
Each car is different hence you do need to tune it.

I do though like to see a smooth graph - for example here is my Mustangs fueling map



It is not perfect but no major lumps. This is more typical Speed Density (SD) while ITB is more involved.

So firstly ITB induction is hard to tune in SD mode as the vacuum (MAP sensor) is often near full air pressure (100 kpa) so it leave little chance to work out partial throttle or WOT - often tuning then goes to AlphaN mode using the throttle position to know what is required. It is mostly better but the problem is you do not know how much air is really being used (which matters at higher revs).

So a trick/feature can be used to swap VE tables from SD mode to AlphaN mode when appropriate can be setup. This is harder to tune due to two tables needing to be tuned and auto tune will not work with it but great once done.

So simplify this the msextra developers added in ITB mode which can switch between SD and AlphaN on a single VE table. This is what I am going to use.

Here is the initial VE fuel map.



This is two maps on one. The main item you will see is a major lump at 100kpa just over idle. Normally I do not like to see it but in this case extra fueling for when the throttle is cracked open is likely to be needed. This could possible be tuned out with fine tuning of acceleration enrichment setting but I suspect we will need to keep it to some degree.



So initial tune all setup ready to run. This map is where the most time will be spent setting fueling levels to match the AFR table. Auto tune can be used - I prefer to manually do it.


One day I decided to just turn off AE and let megatune totally recreate the VE table for me. Lot's of driving up and down hills and also standing start takeoffs. I have a hilly road with lots of traffic calming near my house that is just made for that sort of thing.

Megatune created the bump in the top left of the table as you have. I thought that may have just been because I have an automatic and it needed some gas before it hit the stall speed.


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ants
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lukep6470 wrote
boofhead wrote
Initial setup - fueling VE table.

The VE (Volumeric Efficiency) table boils down to simply how much fuel to add with out considering modifiers (such as air temp, startup cold period, accelerator pump, etc).

It is just a number but you can calc estimate fuel required so roughly number X needed.
Each car is different hence you do need to tune it.

I do though like to see a smooth graph - for example here is my Mustangs fueling map



It is not perfect but no major lumps. This is more typical Speed Density (SD) while ITB is more involved.

So firstly ITB induction is hard to tune in SD mode as the vacuum (MAP sensor) is often near full air pressure (100 kpa) so it leave little chance to work out partial throttle or WOT - often tuning then goes to AlphaN mode using the throttle position to know what is required. It is mostly better but the problem is you do not know how much air is really being used (which matters at higher revs).

So a trick/feature can be used to swap VE tables from SD mode to AlphaN mode when appropriate can be setup. This is harder to tune due to two tables needing to be tuned and auto tune will not work with it but great once done.

So simplify this the msextra developers added in ITB mode which can switch between SD and AlphaN on a single VE table. This is what I am going to use.

Here is the initial VE fuel map.



This is two maps on one. The main item you will see is a major lump at 100kpa just over idle. Normally I do not like to see it but in this case extra fueling for when the throttle is cracked open is likely to be needed. This could possible be tuned out with fine tuning of acceleration enrichment setting but I suspect we will need to keep it to some degree.



So initial tune all setup ready to run. This map is where the most time will be spent setting fueling levels to match the AFR table. Auto tune can be used - I prefer to manually do it.


One day I decided to just turn off AE and let megatune totally recreate the VE table for me. Lot's of driving up and down hills and also standing start takeoffs. I have a hilly road with lots of traffic calming near my house that is just made for that sort of thing.

Megatune created the bump in the top left of the table as you have. I thought that may have just been because I have an automatic and it needed some gas before it hit the stall speed.


So are you saying MS is self tuning ??
I'm like nuts and I'm over cold starts and hard starting when it's been parked for a week or 2.
I have no issues with building a system to suit the car (not as elaborate as Shaun or hybrids) but have been put off by the programing side of it.
If they do self tune I might reconsider the MS system....once I convince the boss that a TKO600 5 speed will make the car easier for her to drive..


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