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Mustang Technical Discussion > Pre 1973 > Installing an AOD in a 66 > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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hybrid
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Silverfox does the solenoid mod in his valve bodies.
They're a very good bit of kit, but have gone up a fair bit since I bought mine.
Still well worth the money though.


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Edz66Vert
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"Nuts - My 95 mustang I just sold had 325KW at the rears and a basically stock AODE. It never missed a beat and I gave it heaps."


That's good but it's not just the kw/hp I'm worried about, it's the torque a stroker generates, especially at low rpm. I like to do things once and do them properly. I don't want to take my car to Sydney or Brisbane and give it a big hit off the lights and have a bang and lose 3rd and 4th and go 'hell what do I do now?' I already did that in it when I did a Holiday run up the East Coast 5 months ago and the high tensile alternator bolt sheared off. Found out later it was missing the front support bracket. Luckily I'd just upgraded to top NRMA cover and they gave us 2 nights in a hotel, $180 taxi ride to collect a hire car, Free Kluger for 7 days and flatbeded the car 700 km back to Canberra.

Hey, I even like the idea of taking it down to Eastern Creek drags and have a couple of fun passes just to see what it does. I'm fairly convinced I don't want the B&M as I mentioned before due to negative Summit comments and I heard Click Click racing bag them (but I couldn't find the link?). If it takes $5k to build a solid reliable AOD/AODE/4R70W then I'll do it. I just sold a spare car so I have the cash to do it properly but I don't want to buy a gearbox that is not guaranteed to survive.

The local guys (in Canberra) don't understand the intracies of building these gearboxes, the only mob I found so far was this mob in Victoria who want $5k for an AOD or AODE Wholesale Automatic Transmissions - anybody heard of them? Initially I thought $5k was a bit steep, but when I see B&M can be a problem at $3k the extra $2k doesn't look too bad for a guaranteed box with local warranty.


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

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Edz66Vert
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hybrid wrote
Silverfox does the solenoid mod in his valve bodies.
They're a very good bit of kit, but have gone up a fair bit since I bought mine.
Still well worth the money though.


How does the wire from the solenoid exit the gearbox, do they drill a hole in it somewhere?


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

Last edited by Edz66Vert on Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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hybrid
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Yes you drill a hole in the gearbox just above where the pan mates with the gearbox and insert a grommet with the wire in it.
FYI, mine is a Paxton supercharged 347 stroker. I've had it at the WSID drag strip... no issues yet. I haven't done all mods possible.
Mine has under $1k worth of parts (haven't changed the converter yet), but I built it myself.

On a 66, street tyres are probably going to be the weakest link anyway, not the gearbox.
If we had a list of mods for that $5k gearbox we could suggest whether it's worth it or not. My first impression is that unless there are billet components in it (which IMO aren't necessary when you can use 4R70W parts), it sounds excessive.


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lukep6470
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I would trust that guy that runs one in a tow truck to build one. That would be one hard working AOD that is seeing a LOT more punishment than your lightweight Mustang will ever dish out.

I bought my B&M before I read all the hater posts. Yet those same forums recommend all the B&M parts that go into that box.


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Edz66Vert
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"lukep6470" - It uses the same mount as a T5 so I doubt you will get away with the factory Mustang mount.'

My gearbox mount isn't factory anymore as someone cut off the factory one and welded a 10mm plate on for the C6 so hopefully it will fit.

I measured mine last night and the rear mount of the C6 is within 5mm of the specs I have for an AOD. My mount measured approx 570 from bell-housing to mount centre and the specs I have say AOD is 566, will know properly when I get one.

The C6 is about 79 mm longer than an AOD overall, can I just get a longer Yoke for this or will I need a new tailshaft? I saw 6.5 in yokes on ebay.


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

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Edz66Vert
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"lukep6470 - I would trust that guy that runs one in a tow truck to build one. That would be one hard working AOD that is seeing a LOT more punishment than your lightweight Mustang will ever dish out.

I bought my B&M before I read all the hater posts. Yet those same forums recommend all the B&M parts that go into that box."

Yes it's a quandary about the B&M, a cheap way to start, but if it goes bang it will cost more than building a good one first time. They do have some good bits listed for them but I doubt they do any of the required lubrication mods that Silver fox lists in his 20 page writeup. They also run the standard two piece shaft which is a major weak point. Some people have put 450hp through that shaft without a problem, others have broken it with 350 hp. I'm not prepared to risk it, I want to be able to launch hard whenever I want and not worry about the chance of breaking a gearbox spoiling my day or week.

The Tow truck guy was Belconnen Transmissions, he has built a few and knew of their weak points. When I started mentioning mechanical diodes he said I'd obviously done my research and mentioned that the last he heard the mechanical diodes were still a weak point. When I said the guys in the US were all fitting them as a power upgrade he said he would go off and do some research and talk to his US buddies on the transmission forum as things had obviously changed. At least he will build me a box with a guarantee for the power and torque I quoted him and is local if there is a problem. He was also very aware of the proper TV adjustment process. I figure if I give him a copy of the article I have on building tips he will have a lot of good info to build me one because he will then know the right questions to ask his US supplier. He also mentioned his mate bought a complete heavy duty built auto from the US for less than he could rebuild one so he understood why people were bringing in their own.

My other option is my mate who builds motors at home. He spent 5 years in a gearbox place so is confident stripping and building autos at home. I could buy a 4R70w box and all the good bits and help him mod it and build it - this may be a good budget alternative?


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

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hybrid
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If the current tailshaft has been spec'd correctly, I wouldn't want an extra 80mm of yoke sticking out.
There is a lot more leverage over the rear bushing when the uni joint is that far out from the box.


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Edz66Vert
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"hybrid - Yes you drill a hole in the gearbox just above where the pan mates with the gearbox and insert a grommet with the wire in it.
FYI, mine is a Paxton supercharged 347 stroker. I've had it at the WSID drag strip... no issues yet. I haven't done all mods possible.
Mine has under $1k worth of parts (haven't changed the converter yet), but I built it myself.

On a 66, street tyres are probably going to be the weakest link anyway, not the gearbox.
If we had a list of mods for that $5k gearbox we could suggest whether it's worth it or not. My first impression is that unless there are billet components in it (which IMO aren't necessary when you can use 4R70W parts), it sounds excessive."

Your beast obviously produces a bit of grunt, so maybe helping my mate build one would be a good option. I could buy a 2nd hand late model 4R70W ('99?) box and spend $1k on good bits, do all the lube mods and I'd have a good box at a nice price. I can strip the box myself and do the mods they mention, I'd just have to get my mate to build it - I like your thinking Hybrid! At least then I'd know exactly what's in it and fit the hardened 1 piece input shaft.

I'm reading your build at the moment to see what tips I can pick up - what was the brand of the throttle body you bought, doesn't look like the Holley?


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

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hybrid
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Yes, you could probably buy a worn out 4R70W. As long as the drums and mechanical diodes are fine you're good to go.
You can also buy the 4R70W parts for the AOD as a kit from some places - I mention transmissioncentre in my article. Compare their kit to buying a whole box before you pull the trigger.

My throttle body isn't available any more. It was sold by autonomics (http://www.auto-nomics.com/), but I haven't seen it on their website for quite a while now.
It was 750CFM (could be modified for 1000CFM if you wanted) and modified for progressive opening and TPS added.

The problem with a lot of the 1000CFM ones I looked at is that they opened all 4 butterflies at the same time, so it was a big hole opening up right away.
It makes it hard to get a nice smooth take off around town.


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Edz66Vert
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"hybrid" If the current tailshaft has been spec'd correctly, I wouldn't want an extra 80mm of yoke sticking out.
There is a lot more leverage over the rear bushing when the uni joint is that far out from the box."

That's what I'm worried about, the current one already hangs out a bit (has the correct engagement freeplay) and it has worn the C6's rear bush. Looks like I'll be adding a new shaft to the list!


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

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Edz66Vert
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"hybrid" - Yes, you could probably buy a worn out 4R70W. As long as the drums and mechanical diodes are fine you're good to go.
You can also buy the 4R70W parts for the AOD as a kit from some places - I mention transmissioncentre in my article. Compare their kit to buying a whole box before you pull the trigger.

My throttle body isn't available any more. It was sold by autonomics (http://www.auto-nomics.com/), but I haven't seen it on their website for quite a while now.
It was 750CFM (could be modified for 1000CFM if you wanted) and modified for progressive opening and TPS added.

The problem with a lot of the 1000CFM ones I looked at is that they opened all 4 butterflies at the same time, so it was a big hole opening up right away. It makes it hard to get a nice smooth take off around town."

I'll have a look at doing that, just chatted to my mate, he's going through a divorce and has to move out in the next 2 months but said give him a ring when I get my bits and gearbox organised and he'll see if he can do it. My other option would be to get a transmission place to build it. I'll price up a kit and 2nd hand box compared to buying a whole box. If you built yours with $1k of bits and it's holding together with your tough combo it would probably be alright for me. Just read that the '99 4R70W has stronger bits so I thought this may be the best way to start since I need to buy a box anyway. I could chase one up from one of the importers.

Do all the 4R70W's bolt up to a 351W? I remember reading that some of the AODE's are 3 bolt starter jobs (I think the V6 ones?)

I looked at the Holley Sniper self tuning EFI, it looks to have mechanical secondries so should be ok, not sure if want to spend another $1800 over my 750 carby price as my current Edelbrock 600 starts first kick every time in 40 deg C and -12.

Looked at your motor pull down, wow filthy! Lots of sludge, mine was spotless in comparison when I stripped it recently. Someone didn't like doing oil changes to your motor!


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

Last edited by Edz66Vert on Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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hybrid
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The 4R70W is electronic, so you can't use that unless you want to buy a controller too.
If you want non-electronic, you buy a normal older AOD and then use the drums from the 4R70W.

If you're happy to go electronic, throw out all I said above as it's all based on the AOD, not AODE/4R70W.


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Edz66Vert
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hybrid wrote
The 4R70W is electronic, so you can't use that unless you want to buy a controller too.
If you want non-electronic, you buy a normal older AOD and then use the drums from the 4R70W.

If you're happy to go electronic, throw out all I said above as it's all based on the AOD, not AODE/4R70W.

Yes, realise that, I actually had a Bauman controller for 5 years and only sold it last year thinking I wouldn't ever need it - stupid me. AOD built with later bits would be the simpler (and cheaper) option. However happy to look at the electronic version.


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

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Edz66Vert
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Bit the bullet today and bought a recoed AOD with shift kit, new matching flexplate, Lokar dipstick and 2500 TCI stall for $3100 delivered. I talked to the builder (Paul Rogers Motorsport) and he is confident it will handle 400 hp as is.

I want to strengthen it before fitting it, I will buy a single hardened shaft to get rid of the 2 piece shaft once I have it to check spline count.

B&M 11" plate cooler and feed into this after the radiator as most builders including Silverfox and Lentech recommend.

B&M or TCI deep sump (adds 3 litres and drops temp 20 degrees)

Temp Gauge - can I connect this to the TV pressure port or does it have to go into the pan?

Should I fit a silverfox valve body (lets me lockout overdrive) does it raise pressure to overcome TV issues or should I fit the TCI high pressure solenoid as well or does it do the same thing?

Anything else?


66 Convertible 351W; AOD; 9"

Last edited by Edz66Vert on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:39 am; edited 1 time in total

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