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Q&A > General Tech Advice > 3 point lap sash belts in convertibles > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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nassi
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mikes68 wrote


Lower the seats... Poke


or..... grow up. Laughing


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mikes68
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The core issue it would seem is that the seat belt shoulder point being lower than the shoulder of the driver can create a downward force on the occupants spine under extreme braking circumstances. I would be interested to see some expert analysis done on this to prove exactly what the forces are that would be applied which, it would seem, may or may not create a compression of the spine.

Anyone here got some particularly high level of skill or qualifications in physics or other relevant discipline...? A bit beyond me right now.


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Shaunp
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Pretty sure my E type Jag was same as well.But it was crashed twice by the PO, infact that's how I ended up with the car, Jock gave it to me to fix and couldn't afford to do it so I bought the wreck, He t boned a 180b that went through a red light,It rooted it, I had to replace the structure from the fire wall forward, so the bonnet and both space frames hard enough hit thet it bent one or the torsion bars. It looked like VW beetle when I got it. Earlier in it's life it also hit calf. So it had some good hits, not sure how hard you have to crash for this belt config to do you harm, but Jock was un injured bot times. The car had 35k damage to it in 93. Not a real good picture but you can just see it 1/2 along the rear 1/4 window. I'm thinking it takes a big crash in which case this may be the least of your issues.




Last edited by Shaunp on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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StephenSLR
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ponyride wrote
Be careful saying things like that. Someone will take you at your word and go ahead and do it. Unless you know it for a fact, it shouldn't be said.


Yes you are correct, Geoff is authorised by the RTA to install seat belts and what I meant was his solution in that photo was designed to meet spec., if he did the work he would give you certification and it would pass rego.

If you do the work yourself you may neglect the hidden details, for instance, there's likely to be a spreader bar on the inside of that panel which isn't visible in the photos.

s


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mikes68
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Shaunp wrote





That is such a beautiful, classic piece you have there Shaun.... Simply stunning!


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mikes68
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StephenSLR wrote
ponyride wrote
Be careful saying things like that. Someone will take you at your word and go ahead and do it. Unless you know it for a fact, it shouldn't be said.


Yes you are correct, Geoff is authorised by the RTA to install seat belts and what I meant was his solution in that photo was designed to meet spec., if he did the work he would give you certification and it would pass rego.

If you do the work yourself you may neglect the hidden details, for instance, there's likely to be a spreader bar on the inside of that panel which isn't visible in the photos.

s


Stephen, would you mind sending a couple of the pics from the link in my original post to Geoff for comment - if he has time of course. Not looking for an official response but just an indication as to the likelihood of viability - noting of course Shaun's comment on the experience with the lower position of the upper belt restraint location in the accident in the Jag


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Shaunp
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Mike the issue I see with the Eccon line set up is to do with rear seat passangers, if that arm swings around it will likly hit them, Be ok in a panel van. You cant attach any thing to the front seats ie use moden ones as this putts the load on the floor no one will approve that either.

Sold the Jag last year Mike.


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mikes68
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Shaunp wrote
Mike the issue I see with the Eccon line set up is to do with rear seat passangers, if that arm swings around it will likly hit them, can't see how it can be legal or safe. Be ok in a panel van. You cant attach any thing to the front seats ie use moden ones as this putts the load on the floor no one will approve that either.


Good point although how could it swing around if there is weight pulling it forward... Unless of corse a front seat is unoccupied and the rear seat is - unlikely but possible.

So doing a mod to install something like the M3 BMW front seats with integrated seat belts would not be acceptable without re-engineering the floor as well?


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ponyride
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Shaunp wrote
Mike the issue I see with the Eccon line set up is to do with rear seat passangers, if that arm swings around it will likly hit them, can't see how it can be legal or safe. Be ok in a panel van. You cant attach any thing to the front seats ie use moden ones as this putts the load on the floor no one will approve that either.


My concerns too. At the very least you'd also have to look at proper rear seat passenger restraints to avoid any possibilty of them hitting obtrusions like that, even then I'd be worried.


Rick.

Old things amuse all minds.

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StephenSLR
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mikes68 wrote
Good point although how could it swing around if there is weight pulling it forward...


You have to keep in mind all scenarios, what if the car is t-boned, where is that arm likely to end up?

If the car slides out sideways, lands against a fence pushing in the side rear, is the bar likely to end up in the driver's neck?

I've sent your post to Geoff, he's been good so far replying to my questions so we'll wait and see.

Also, he's in NSW, your rules may vary in W.A.

s


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Shaunp
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Floor was originally desined to hold the seat only not the load of the seat and restraint in a crash, not saying it wont do it, the question is will anyone sign off that it will, I suspect not. This why new cars get crashed into a wall.


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Shaunp
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mikes68 wrote
Shaunp wrote
Mike the issue I see with the Eccon line set up is to do with rear seat passangers, if that arm swings around it will likly hit them, can't see how it can be legal or safe. Be ok in a panel van. You cant attach any thing to the front seats ie use moden ones as this putts the load on the floor no one will approve that either.


Good point although how could it swing around if there is weight pulling it forward... Unless of corse a front seat is unoccupied and the rear seat is - unlikely but possible.

So doing a mod to install something like the M3 BMW front seats with integrated seat belts would not be acceptable without re-engineering the floor as well?


In the case of kiddy seats in the back you may have no one in the front. Not that this applies to you. But the Engineer has to sign off on the car for it's life, not how it getts used today.


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mikes68
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StephenSLR wrote
mikes68 wrote
Good point although how could it swing around if there is weight pulling it forward...


You have to keep in mind all scenarios, what if the car is t-boned, where is that arm likely to end up?

If the car slides out sideways, lands against a fence pushing in the side rear, is the bar likely to end up in the driver's neck?

I've sent your post to Geoff, he's been good so far replying to my questions so we'll wait and see.

Also, he's in NSW, your rules may vary in W.A.

s


All very good points there again Stephen... Thanks


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mikes68
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Shaunp wrote
Floor was originally desined to hold the seat only not the load of the seat and restraint in a crash, not saying it wont do it, the question is will anyone sign off that it will, I suspect not. This why new cars get crashed into a wall.


I suspect with the amount of welds I put into both the seat riser and the under floor reinforcement pans that this would survive the iceberg that the titanic hit... Joking of course but fair enough point again Shaun.

Might just stick with the lap belts and start wearing a motorbike helmet when driving - maybe just a bike helmet cause they look so cool... Poke


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Shaunp
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mikes68 wrote
Shaunp wrote
Floor was originally desined to hold the seat only not the load of the seat and restraint in a crash, not saying it wont do it, the question is will anyone sign off that it will, I suspect not. This why new cars get crashed into a wall.


I suspect with the amount of welds I put into both the seat riser and the under floor reinforcement pans that this would survive the iceberg that the titanic hit... Joking of course but fair enough point again Shaun.

Might just stick with the lap belts and start wearing a motorbike helmet when driving - maybe just a bike helmet cause they look so cool... Poke

Most verts in QLD have them mounted at the very top of the B pillar, including many coupes, some are mounted down low becuase they don't want to weld the mount in of course, but you want them as high as you can get them, which means welding. I think it's the best you can do short of a roll bar. It was acceptable to Oz authorities back in the day, V12 E types were sold into the 70's not sure how a HQ monaro was done, you can only make it as safe as you can at the end of the day.


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