- -
UserInfo

Welcome Anonymous




Membership:
Latest: snake
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 929

People Online:
Members: 2
Visitors: 0
Bots: 11
Total: 13
Who Is Where:
Members:
ozbiltForums
 Bots:
01. Login
02. Forums
03. Forums
04. Login
05. Forums
06. Forums
07. Links
08. Forums
09. Forums
10. Links
11. Forums
Hidden: 1
Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
We have received
38063860
page views since
July 27, 2010

Hits New Today: 15419
Hits New Yesterday: 18692

Server Time
23 July 2018 21:41:27 AEST (GMT +10)
Q&A > General Tech Advice > 3 point lap sash belts in convertibles > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

New PostsLast 24hrsUnanswered
Forum Index > General Tech Advice

3 point lap sash belts in convertibles Reply to topic

Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
Author Message
nassi
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Aug 01, 2010
Posts: 6551
Location: Perth

0 👍 / 0 👎


mikes68 wrote


Lower the seats... Poke


or..... grow up. Laughing


View user's profilePhoto Gallery
mikes68
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 3210
Location: Perth, Western Australia

0 👍 / 0 👎


The core issue it would seem is that the seat belt shoulder point being lower than the shoulder of the driver can create a downward force on the occupants spine under extreme braking circumstances. I would be interested to see some expert analysis done on this to prove exactly what the forces are that would be applied which, it would seem, may or may not create a compression of the spine.

Anyone here got some particularly high level of skill or qualifications in physics or other relevant discipline...? A bit beyond me right now.


Fifty Years Afloat

We can't alter the direction of the wind,
But we can adjust our sails

View user's profileVisit poster's website
Shaunp
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Posts: 4247
Location: Brisbane Bayside

0 👍 / 0 👎


Pretty sure my E type Jag was same as well.But it was crashed twice by the PO, infact that's how I ended up with the car, Jock gave it to me to fix and couldn't afford to do it so I bought the wreck, He t boned a 180b that went through a red light,It rooted it, I had to replace the structure from the fire wall forward, so the bonnet and both space frames hard enough hit thet it bent one or the torsion bars. It looked like VW beetle when I got it. Earlier in it's life it also hit calf. So it had some good hits, not sure how hard you have to crash for this belt config to do you harm, but Jock was un injured bot times. The car had 35k damage to it in 93. Not a real good picture but you can just see it 1/2 along the rear 1/4 window. I'm thinking it takes a big crash in which case this may be the least of your issues.




Last edited by Shaunp on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

View user's profile
StephenSLR
Mustang Star

Offline
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 868
Location: Sydney

0 👍 / 0 👎


ponyride wrote
Be careful saying things like that. Someone will take you at your word and go ahead and do it. Unless you know it for a fact, it shouldn't be said.


Yes you are correct, Geoff is authorised by the RTA to install seat belts and what I meant was his solution in that photo was designed to meet spec., if he did the work he would give you certification and it would pass rego.

If you do the work yourself you may neglect the hidden details, for instance, there's likely to be a spreader bar on the inside of that panel which isn't visible in the photos.

s


Listen to my band here: www.reverbnation.com/LYCANTHIA

View user's profilePhoto Gallery
mikes68
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 3210
Location: Perth, Western Australia

0 👍 / 0 👎


Shaunp wrote





That is such a beautiful, classic piece you have there Shaun.... Simply stunning!


Fifty Years Afloat

We can't alter the direction of the wind,
But we can adjust our sails

View user's profileVisit poster's website
mikes68
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 3210
Location: Perth, Western Australia

0 👍 / 0 👎


StephenSLR wrote
ponyride wrote
Be careful saying things like that. Someone will take you at your word and go ahead and do it. Unless you know it for a fact, it shouldn't be said.


Yes you are correct, Geoff is authorised by the RTA to install seat belts and what I meant was his solution in that photo was designed to meet spec., if he did the work he would give you certification and it would pass rego.

If you do the work yourself you may neglect the hidden details, for instance, there's likely to be a spreader bar on the inside of that panel which isn't visible in the photos.

s


Stephen, would you mind sending a couple of the pics from the link in my original post to Geoff for comment - if he has time of course. Not looking for an official response but just an indication as to the likelihood of viability - noting of course Shaun's comment on the experience with the lower position of the upper belt restraint location in the accident in the Jag


Fifty Years Afloat

We can't alter the direction of the wind,
But we can adjust our sails

View user's profileVisit poster's website
Shaunp
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Posts: 4247
Location: Brisbane Bayside

0 👍 / 0 👎


Mike the issue I see with the Eccon line set up is to do with rear seat passangers, if that arm swings around it will likly hit them, Be ok in a panel van. You cant attach any thing to the front seats ie use moden ones as this putts the load on the floor no one will approve that either.

Sold the Jag last year Mike.


View user's profile
mikes68
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 3210
Location: Perth, Western Australia

0 👍 / 0 👎


Shaunp wrote
Mike the issue I see with the Eccon line set up is to do with rear seat passangers, if that arm swings around it will likly hit them, can't see how it can be legal or safe. Be ok in a panel van. You cant attach any thing to the front seats ie use moden ones as this putts the load on the floor no one will approve that either.


Good point although how could it swing around if there is weight pulling it forward... Unless of corse a front seat is unoccupied and the rear seat is - unlikely but possible.

So doing a mod to install something like the M3 BMW front seats with integrated seat belts would not be acceptable without re-engineering the floor as well?


Fifty Years Afloat

We can't alter the direction of the wind,
But we can adjust our sails

View user's profileVisit poster's website
ponyride
Mustang Maniac

Offline
Joined: Aug 15, 2010
Posts: 1979
Location: Perth, W.A.

0 👍 / 0 👎


Shaunp wrote
Mike the issue I see with the Eccon line set up is to do with rear seat passangers, if that arm swings around it will likly hit them, can't see how it can be legal or safe. Be ok in a panel van. You cant attach any thing to the front seats ie use moden ones as this putts the load on the floor no one will approve that either.


My concerns too. At the very least you'd also have to look at proper rear seat passenger restraints to avoid any possibilty of them hitting obtrusions like that, even then I'd be worried.


Rick.

Old things amuse all minds.

View user's profilePhoto Gallery
StephenSLR
Mustang Star

Offline
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 868
Location: Sydney

0 👍 / 0 👎


mikes68 wrote
Good point although how could it swing around if there is weight pulling it forward...


You have to keep in mind all scenarios, what if the car is t-boned, where is that arm likely to end up?

If the car slides out sideways, lands against a fence pushing in the side rear, is the bar likely to end up in the driver's neck?

I've sent your post to Geoff, he's been good so far replying to my questions so we'll wait and see.

Also, he's in NSW, your rules may vary in W.A.

s


Listen to my band here: www.reverbnation.com/LYCANTHIA

View user's profilePhoto Gallery
Shaunp
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Posts: 4247
Location: Brisbane Bayside

0 👍 / 0 👎


Floor was originally desined to hold the seat only not the load of the seat and restraint in a crash, not saying it wont do it, the question is will anyone sign off that it will, I suspect not. This why new cars get crashed into a wall.


View user's profile
Shaunp
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Posts: 4247
Location: Brisbane Bayside

0 👍 / 0 👎


mikes68 wrote
Shaunp wrote
Mike the issue I see with the Eccon line set up is to do with rear seat passangers, if that arm swings around it will likly hit them, can't see how it can be legal or safe. Be ok in a panel van. You cant attach any thing to the front seats ie use moden ones as this putts the load on the floor no one will approve that either.


Good point although how could it swing around if there is weight pulling it forward... Unless of corse a front seat is unoccupied and the rear seat is - unlikely but possible.

So doing a mod to install something like the M3 BMW front seats with integrated seat belts would not be acceptable without re-engineering the floor as well?


In the case of kiddy seats in the back you may have no one in the front. Not that this applies to you. But the Engineer has to sign off on the car for it's life, not how it getts used today.


View user's profile
mikes68
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 3210
Location: Perth, Western Australia

0 👍 / 0 👎


StephenSLR wrote
mikes68 wrote
Good point although how could it swing around if there is weight pulling it forward...


You have to keep in mind all scenarios, what if the car is t-boned, where is that arm likely to end up?

If the car slides out sideways, lands against a fence pushing in the side rear, is the bar likely to end up in the driver's neck?

I've sent your post to Geoff, he's been good so far replying to my questions so we'll wait and see.

Also, he's in NSW, your rules may vary in W.A.

s


All very good points there again Stephen... Thanks


Fifty Years Afloat

We can't alter the direction of the wind,
But we can adjust our sails

View user's profileVisit poster's website
mikes68
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 3210
Location: Perth, Western Australia

0 👍 / 0 👎


Shaunp wrote
Floor was originally desined to hold the seat only not the load of the seat and restraint in a crash, not saying it wont do it, the question is will anyone sign off that it will, I suspect not. This why new cars get crashed into a wall.


I suspect with the amount of welds I put into both the seat riser and the under floor reinforcement pans that this would survive the iceberg that the titanic hit... Joking of course but fair enough point again Shaun.

Might just stick with the lap belts and start wearing a motorbike helmet when driving - maybe just a bike helmet cause they look so cool... Poke


Fifty Years Afloat

We can't alter the direction of the wind,
But we can adjust our sails

View user's profileVisit poster's website
Shaunp
Mustang King

Offline
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Posts: 4247
Location: Brisbane Bayside

0 👍 / 0 👎


mikes68 wrote
Shaunp wrote
Floor was originally desined to hold the seat only not the load of the seat and restraint in a crash, not saying it wont do it, the question is will anyone sign off that it will, I suspect not. This why new cars get crashed into a wall.


I suspect with the amount of welds I put into both the seat riser and the under floor reinforcement pans that this would survive the iceberg that the titanic hit... Joking of course but fair enough point again Shaun.

Might just stick with the lap belts and start wearing a motorbike helmet when driving - maybe just a bike helmet cause they look so cool... Poke

Most verts in QLD have them mounted at the very top of the B pillar, including many coupes, some are mounted down low becuase they don't want to weld the mount in of course, but you want them as high as you can get them, which means welding. I think it's the best you can do short of a roll bar. It was acceptable to Oz authorities back in the day, V12 E types were sold into the 70's not sure how a HQ monaro was done, you can only make it as safe as you can at the end of the day.


View user's profile
All times are Australia/Sydney
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next


Jump to:

TopPostersToday
   Shaunp 
 Posts: 
 2 

   nassi 
 Posts: 
 2 

   hybrid 
 Posts: 
 1 

   DavesStang 
 Posts: 
 1 

   ants 
 Posts: 
 1 

   Ausjacko 
 Posts: 
 1 

LatestForumPosts
Last 10 Forum Messages
68 Mustang Brake Warning Light
Last post by Astro in Pre 1973 on Jul 23, 2018 21:32:50

Looks like the block is cracked - Never, ever buy Dart
Last post by Nuts in General Tech Advice on Jul 23, 2018 20:02:30

Husky's 65 Restomod
Last post by Husky65 in Mustang Projects on Jul 23, 2018 10:14:54

Rear 1/4 Window Regulator
Last post by smally in Pre 1973 on Jul 22, 2018 20:13:59

hybrids 1966 Coupe Project
Last post by nassi in Mustang Projects on Jul 22, 2018 09:31:36

Astro's GG-0351 coupe build.
Last post by Shaunp in Mustang Projects on Jul 21, 2018 22:21:21

Narrowing an Exploder diff
Last post by Dwayne in General Tech Advice on Jul 21, 2018 10:45:02

Project Lime A code.
Last post by nassi in Mustang Projects on Jul 20, 2018 21:21:42

1970 Ford Mustang convertible
Last post by Chux in Mustangs for Sale on Jul 19, 2018 21:17:31

gear ratios
Last post by geoff289 in Pre 1973 on Jul 19, 2018 17:45:53