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Mustang Technical Discussion > Pre 1973 > Whats the distance between Rad & pump pulley on a 67 > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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Whats the distance between Rad & pump pulley on a 67 Reply to topic

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Shaunp
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gbx78 wrote
I wrote an insightful piece around derale and the dual power pack figures are incorrect but i got kicked out and lost my novel. I will type it again later after work


you mean flow figures, Yeah if you add up the flow of the two fans as individuals they dont add to the claimed total of the Power pack.


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gbx78
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Shaunp wrote
gbx78 wrote
I wrote an insightful piece around derale and the dual power pack figures are incorrect but i got kicked out and lost my novel. I will type it again later after work


you mean flow figures, Yeah if you add up the flow of the two fans as individuals they dont add to the claimed total of the Power pack.


Yep oh good I don't need to rewrite my conversation with derale then! .. Though they did say their 12" fan is a lot better than the 11 in that pack. I near went 2x12s but with creativity and help from derale and my engineering friend I squeezed 12 and 14".. 14 on the inlet half and 12 on the outlet. Fitted well and avoided all the space issues.


'You can never test fire too many times.' - Hybrid

'You can never have too many gauges' -
Boofhead

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Shaunp
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gbx78 wrote
Shaunp wrote
gbx78 wrote
I wrote an insightful piece around derale and the dual power pack figures are incorrect but i got kicked out and lost my novel. I will type it again later after work


you mean flow figures, Yeah if you add up the flow of the two fans as individuals they dont add to the claimed total of the Power pack.


Yep oh good I don't need to rewrite my conversation with derale then! .. Though they did say their 12" fan is a lot better than the 11 in that pack. I near went 2x12s but with creativity and help from derale and my engineering friend I squeezed 12 and 14".. 14 on the inlet half and 12 on the outlet. Fitted well and avoided all the space issues.


Got any pictures? of yours. I'm kind of stuck with the 24"x 15.5" setup as I'm using a factory type 428 rad. I dont want an alloy rad.


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gbx78
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Shaunp wrote
gbx78 wrote
Shaunp wrote
gbx78 wrote
I wrote an insightful piece around derale and the dual power pack figures are incorrect but i got kicked out and lost my novel. I will type it again later after work


you mean flow figures, Yeah if you add up the flow of the two fans as individuals they dont add to the claimed total of the Power pack.


Yep oh good I don't need to rewrite my conversation with derale then! .. Though they did say their 12" fan is a lot better than the 11 in that pack. I near went 2x12s but with creativity and help from derale and my engineering friend I squeezed 12 and 14".. 14 on the inlet half and 12 on the outlet. Fitted well and avoided all the space issues.


Got any pictures? of yours. I'm kind of stuck with the 24"x 15.5" setup as I'm using a factory type 428 rad. I dont want an alloy rad.


Im running an Alloy rad but its the same size as what you have mentioned (BB style) and 12 +14" derale fans. now that will obviously sit over the edges a touch with some stagger but after speaking with Derale and my engineering friend the 1/2-3/4" either side that sits over is negligible and wouldnt cause deficiency in air flow/pull. Though its recommended to block those areas (like an extension of the rad) in order for the the blades to keep its "pull" more centred. I havent done that yet and not too much of an issue just a recommendation. It was discussed that a 12 + 14 would cover MORE surface area than a 12 +12 even though the over hang. Apparently right on the edges and the centre - obviously) of the blades are dead areas (or not where the main pull is from). anyway.. this was the path i went. They fit well and the same series as boof and Cage.

Hybrid might chime in, he is using the BA-BF 17 or 18" single fan on the same sized radiator and its a beast and pretty much goes straight on. It wouldnt fit in my case due to the crank pulley so twin fans helped stagger the bulk

if you werent keen on the over hang then the 2 x 12's of the same series would be a better option (ive been through this discussion soo many times with Derale, Spal and Ron Davis - who use Spal anyway. They all know me well lol.. i ask LOTS of questions). Derale mentioned that due to the fact both of their fans i was considering cover alot of core surface area and be mounted direct a shroud wouldnt be needed or provide any benefit.. in my case.. (they are 3" deep and act like a shroud within themselves as the blade sits further in the casing and it was better to leave the corners of the rad.. which are minimal anyway - for free flowing air when required (same as the flaps idea). This was proven with some testing and the idea originally came from Hybrid when i was having heating issues when driving but not when idling. (I cut open the shroud in those corners and surely enough the car was cooling MUCH better). Something to do with turbulence and air bouncing off the shroud back to the core before being sucked out...therefore causing heat to remain longer than being extracted out quickly.) Which is why a shroud is recommended to be at least 1" deep but not much more as the fan will lose its efficiency. A shroud isnt a shroud isnt a shroud. Some will work and some need to be designed better than the baking tray style and the flaps idea (or not at all) is a much better design. Its very circumstantial and the design needs to suit. Apparently its an art.

I have space restrictions so i went down the 12+14" path. The 14" is 2100cfm alone which is crap loads more than the 12" which is 1400cfm and would be more efficient than another 12" even with a slight over hang by both. If you have plenty space then a shroud would better even with fans that slightly over hang as it will be sitting 1/2-1" away from the core anyway. Much like how many performance Rad companies like Ron Davis make their rads with included shrouds. They are designed in conjunction with fan manufacturers (like spal).

Here is a Ron Davis crossflow example with fans that slightly over hang but shrouded. Same principal when not shrouded but the edge of a downflow rad would need to be "extended" or the exposed blades just need to be blocked as recommended so pull comes from the core and not just flowing from the outside.



Old pic, i have modified my upper bracket and mounted it differently but still essentially the same



Anyway alot you know anyway just throwing my experience and discussions with Derale, Spal and Ron Davis out there for anyone else reading.. food for thought.

enough of my ramble.


'You can never test fire too many times.' - Hybrid

'You can never have too many gauges' -
Boofhead

Last edited by gbx78 on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:58 am; edited 3 times in total

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hybrid
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I'm not sure the big single will fit if he's got depth issues. The benefit of twins is that the motors are offset from the pulley.
Happy to do any measurements. But remember my rad support is modified, so my rad essentially sits right up against it. I could just measure the depth of the fan motor from the rad after making it fit.


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Shaunp
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The question is how much do they really need. They used to work with a 5 blade engine fan on a 20" rad. How deep is the BF fan? Going by John's 68 vert I have 4.5" to the water pump.


Last edited by Shaunp on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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hybrid
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I think the right radiator is important. Mine is so much better since I put the 2row alloy in it. Even with the aircon on today, the temps were exactly the same as on a cooler day with no aircon. I think most of the time, the low speed was fine as well. I turn low speed on with the aircon and the ECU switches high speed with coolant.

The way mine is mounted, the fan/shroud is 100mm deep.



Last edited by hybrid on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:03 am; edited 2 times in total

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Husky65
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I'm one step down from the BF single fan, and using the twin AU fans, which move some serious air. They have not even come on high speed yet, even with sydney's hot weather.
The width of the fan/shroud assembly is 26 inches(not including the end plastic mounting brackets), and the height approx 15 inches.
The depth of the fans are approx 3.5 inches.(that's from the radiator back and doesn't include the little overhang at the top you can see in the pics)




Last edited by Husky65 on Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:32 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Nuts
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Probably keep cooler if you had a belt on!


My Motto - Don't get Caught! If you do, Blame Someone Else!

MUSTANG - Fantastic Not Plastic

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Shaunp
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I think the falcon fans are a couple of inchs wider than the Rad, I'm worried it will look silly.


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hybrid
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I used some aloy square tube and mounted that to the original flange on each side, then mounted the fans to that.
It looks fine. I can't remember if I took pics of that in my build.


Found it:
www.mustangtech.com.au...tml#117991



Last edited by hybrid on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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gbx78
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Husky65 wrote
I'm one step down from the BF single fan, and using the twin AU fans, which move some serious air. They have not even come on high speed yet, even with sydney's hot weather.
The width of the fan/shroud assembly is 26 inches(not including the end plastic mounting brackets), and the height approx 15 inches.
The depth of the fans are approx 3.5 inches.(that's from the radiator back and doesn't include the little overhang at the top you can see in the pics)




I like that set up.. i nearly went that.. rad and all as i hear the late model falcon rads are single core but really wide. Would have solved my space issues.


'You can never test fire too many times.' - Hybrid

'You can never have too many gauges' -
Boofhead

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Shaunp
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Might see if I can hold of an AU twin set once the engine is in see how it looks.


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nassi
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You can also use the Modeo twin setup, it is a much better fit than the AU twin setup.
An issue we have found with the twin fans though, is one blows directly on the power steer pump and this then fries the oiled the pump so we needed to run a cooler for the power steer.
I only noticed this on the later model ally pumps though and not the original early Ford style.


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Shaunp
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nassi wrote
You can also use the Modeo twin setup, it is a much better fit than the AU twin setup.
An issue we have found with the twin fans though, is one blows directly on the power steer pump and this then fries the oiled the pump so we needed to run a cooler for the power steer.
I only noticed this on the later model ally pumps though and not the original early Ford style.


Maybe I'll just put the 6 blade viscous clutch fan and shroud on it, I'm betting it will work fine, I'm just worried are about it coming apart at revs


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