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Mustang Technical Discussion > Pre 1973 > Power brakes twin circuit for a 66 ? > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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xxxGT
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I'm progressing through a full resto on my right hand drive 66 GT coupe and have decided to upgrade the single circuit manual brakes to a twin circuit power boosted setup.
Has anyone gone this route on a 66 ?
I've done some measurements and I might just fit in a 7" booster if I recess the right side apron a bit. I'd prefer to have the booster in the traditional position as opposed to remote.
I have Kelsey Hayes discs up front and drums at the rear.
I have checked with Hoppers Stoppers in Werribee, Vic and they want about $600 for a kit.
Other booster/master cylinders are cheaper but I'm not sure if they will have the right pedal ratio and residual back pressure valves.

Any advice is appreciated Smile


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Nuts
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Hi Buddy, if your car was a stock lefty it would be an easy fix. However, with a right hand conversion, there are just too many variables, such as what brake pedal and pedal box was used in the conversion.. What is the distance between the shock tower and the firewall? What style of booster and master cylinder yoursel will fit? Are you able to do this conversion youself? By this I mean, you will probably need to do a fair amount of fabrication to get the booster and MC to fit correctly. If you've never done anything like this before, i'd get some expect advice.


My Motto - Don't get Caught! If you do, Blame Someone Else!

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boofhead
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I have always used an XB booster. Used it on friends cars, my 69 Capri (I V8 converted) , my Cougar and about to do it to my 65 Mustang. Naturally it is not a straight bolt in proposition.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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xxxGT
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Nuts wrote
Hi Buddy, if your car was a stock lefty it would be an easy fix. However, with a right hand conversion, there are just too many variables, such as what brake pedal and pedal box was used in the conversion.. What is the distance between the shock tower and the firewall? What style of booster and master cylinder yoursel will fit? Are you able to do this conversion youself? By this I mean, you will probably need to do a fair amount of fabrication to get the booster and MC to fit correctly. If you've never done anything like this before, i'd get some expect advice.


I am using the standard pedal box and the original jam jar GT Master cylinder was mounted on the firewall section that was transferred over to the right hand side. I don't see any issues there. This distance from the firewall to the shock tower is the same as the left side so no problem there.
I can do this myself. The car is a shell at the moment so access is easy and plumbing the dual lines will be too.
I realise I will have to provide a recess in the side apron for the outer edge of the booster. However the car is with the panel beater now and he has no concerns doing this.
I see the better kits offer a different pedal pin position to give a better pedal ratio and requiring less pedal for more pressure.
There seems to be quite a few guys in the US that offer kits like MustangSteve. There's also kits from most of the parts suppliers.
Anyone had an experience with these ?


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xxxGT
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boofhead wrote
I have always used an XB booster. Used it on friends cars, my 69 Capri (I V8 converted) , my Cougar and about to do it to my 65 Mustang. Naturally it is not a straight bolt in proposition.


Thanks Boof..
I see Hoppers Stoppers use Falcon XB master cylinders. Will that fit between the shock tower ?
What sort of booster are you planning to use on the mustang ?


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boofhead
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The XB booster and master cylinder.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Shaunp
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XB masters get used on heaps of conversions, they fit them to Gemini boosters for hot rods at TBS here in brisbane. The master is short, contains the brake fail switch and good price at about $160 new. 1" bore. You could maybe look a Gemini booster if space is tight. I've seen XB boosters used in LHD mustangs, but you have to mod the push rod to pedal and pack the off the firewall a bit.

Boof I dropped a spare pedal box I had down to the workshop for your fastback as well. John was out of them.


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xxxGT
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Thanks Shaun.
I will have to go for something like the gemini or a similar 7" booster as the bonnet hinge is also going to get in the way. The firewall section for the master cylinder has been moved closer than it would have been on the left side originally.
I've been reading it's necessary to have a pedal stop if using an XB MC because if the pedal is lifted up the piston can pop out.


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Shaunp
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The booster holds the piston in. TBS know what to do with the Gem stuff. I've got an XB in my RHD 67, same as boof has in his Cougar, both cars use a Falcon pedal box though. They are convert the same way basically.


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boofhead
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Shaunp wrote

Boof I dropped a spare pedal box I had down to the workshop for your fastback as well. John was out of them.


Cool thanks - 3 Peddles aka Manual?


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Shaunp
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boofhead wrote
Shaunp wrote

Boof I dropped a spare pedal box I had down to the workshop for your fastback as well. John was out of them.


Cool thanks - 3 Peddles aka Manual?


haven't found the pedals yet sure I have at least a brake, John said he has a long shaft, you can cut down an auto brake, and mod a mustang brake for the clutch if needs be. I just dropped in the box it'self.


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boofhead
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Shaunp wrote
boofhead wrote
Shaunp wrote

Boof I dropped a spare pedal box I had down to the workshop for your fastback as well. John was out of them.


Cool thanks - 3 Peddles aka Manual?


haven't found the pedals yet sure I have at least a brake, John said he has a long shaft, you can cut down an auto brake, and mod a mustang brake for the clutch if needs be. I just dropped in the box it'self.


Cool - Thank you.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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xxxGT
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I've decided I'll get the kit offered from Hoppers Stoppers. It's going to cost me more than getting bits and pieces myself but I'll have backup advice if I have any issues.
Their kit is a 7" booster with an XB twin circuit master cylinder. 1" bore.
They advised me for this I need a 5:1 pedal ratio.
I measured my existing pedal and used the formula below and have 5.6:1 so might be o.k with my original pedal box.
Over 6:1 ratio and I'll have over sensitive brakes. keep in mind this a disc brake front.
4:1 and under would require too much foot pressure.
I will run a vacuum pump rather than change camshaft to a profile that will give me the required vacuum 18" at idle to run the booster.
That would mean too much of a change to the engine's dynamics.

Here's a diagram I found for calculating the ratio.
It might help anyone else going down this path.
I'll post more as I progress.
Ron



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boofhead
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How big a CAM are you running? I have run some large CAMs in the past and never found to much of an issue in terms of braking peddle pressure. Keep in mind the XB booster is a double diaphragm design which helps in a low vacuum environment.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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xxxGT
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At the moment I'm running a Comp Cams Hyd roller with 244o duration @50 on both I and E.
304o total on both.
It has 84 degrees overlap which is the problem.
At best I have around 9-10" vacuum at idle and that's with 23o initial timing.
I have decided to put a smaller hyd roller in. The thing is all the Comp Cams hyd rollers are 110o Lobe separation.Even the smaller ones.
To get the idle vacuum for power brakes it seems I need at least 112o LSA cam.
I'm not sure I want to change the dynamics of the engine that much.

I'm only going to be able to fit a 7" booster in unfortunately. It'll be dual diaphragm but won't have the capacity of an XB booster.


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