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Mustang Technical Discussion > Pre 1973 > How to tell V8 spindles - need better discs & calipers > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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How to tell V8 spindles - need better discs & calipers Reply to topic

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Edz66Vert
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Spent 8 hours yesterday making the plywood templates for my big brakes. Drawn one up in CADD, 2 to go. Then I can test cut them on the CNC in Aluminium or print them on the 3D printer at work and see if they fit. Nice to check them before they are cut in 10 mm steel on the water jet. Sorry about the poor pic, my iphone moved!



A bearing question: are the later stubs different to 66 V8 stubs? UPC sent me bearings with my hubs and they are 0.3 and 0.6 mm too small, had to use the old bearings? They said I might have the later stubs? My stub measured 31.6 and 19 where the bearings sit?


66 Convertible 351W+; AOD; 9"

Last edited by Edz66Vert on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:10 am; edited 2 times in total

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boofhead
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Earlier stubs are thinner.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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nassi
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You have access to all the good gear. Like


Last edited by nassi on Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Edz66Vert
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I do have access to some good gear, that's why I love my job and only 4 minutes from home!

Tried the bearings on my car and they fitted, turned out the stub I borrowed had too much rust on it and wouldn't let the bearing go on, when I cleaned it up with scotch-brite, the new ones fitted. I posted a better pic of the wood templates, the other was a bit blurry. Now I just have to finish drawing them up before making the test pieces on the 3D printer. Cool toy, does 200 mm cubed.


66 Convertible 351W+; AOD; 9"

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Edz66Vert
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6 hours later, I'm happy with the brackets. Had to go back and downsize the threads in case the waterjet is a bit rough, I'll drill them before threading. Now time to play with the cnc in the woodwork room and make up the test pieces in mdf to see if they fit before cutting in steel.


66 Convertible 351W+; AOD; 9"

Last edited by Edz66Vert on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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boofhead
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Nice - very interesting.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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nassi
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I had used MDF models for parts before but the problem I had was getting an accurate measurement from them for the real stuff, a problem you will not have as you have measurements.
This is a good thread to follow, thanks for sharing.


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Edz66Vert
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I'll continue sharing. I was disappointed in the price of big brake kits and the quality of what you were getting for the dollars. $1800 for Hoppers for non drilled and vented discs. I'll be looking at selling bracket kits for big brakes for $200 with bolts if I can find a local business that will cut them for a reasonable price. Have a mate with a water jet so I'll talk to him first and also have a laser cutter 3 km away. This would help out people who have Mustangs and don't have easy access to this gear and stop people getting ripped off by other suppliers. UPC will supply hubs and the rest is easy to purchase.

This is what I've done so far:
- 322 x 28 vented and drilled gold discs (DBA 2107X BF V8) discs were $325 for the pair,
- hubs, bearings and seals 2 days & $380 from UPC (fit perfect),
- brackets gratis ( but I did buy a kit for VS single piston calipers initially which I used for mock-up and will resell),
- calipers are BA-BF Falcon 6 cyl/V8 (30% more pad area than the VT) and came with hoses that clip straight in to the original mustang bracket ($60 for the pair with hoses delivered from an eBay wrecker - local wrecker wanted $70 ea).
- have to redo the brake line ends to the hoses because the new calipers are metric double flare and I think my mate said the old were ball flares like the Falcon but if you had new braided hoses made you could have the original Mustang fittings matched up. My brake lines were ugly and painted poorly so I'm replacing the lot. Will probably replace the rubber lines supplied with braided when I see how they fit for length, my previous brake lines rubbed on the tyre under lock yet passed NSW reg when I cable tied them to the stubs???
- Bendix Ultimate pads ($120, saw them for $112 on ebay today), brake supplier advised these over EBC Green pads as these are used on all Police vehicles and work hot or cold. He said EBC Greens are good if you race but take a lot to warm up so no good for everyday use, Ultimates give very good braking.
- VH40 1375 psi booster from Hydroboost in Vic - $300 delivered. They said not to go bigger as they had people who failed their brake test during engineering due to a too aggressive brake that locked up way to easily especially in the wet.

All up - $1145, $1265 with braided lines.

Add another $150-200 for the new brake lines and labour from my mate.

I also fitted a Wilwood proportioning valve and managed to hide it under the master cylinder as my mate who is doing the brakes used to work for ACT Reg and said if they (and the engineer) can't see it, they won'y question it. What do you think?




BTW - got my import approval letter from Infrastructure, 2 working days, not bad for a Federal Government Department!


66 Convertible 351W+; AOD; 9"

Last edited by Edz66Vert on Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Edz66Vert
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I thought that I could simplify the brackets, looking at the Hoppers kit, they just supply one bracket that bolts to the stub with loose spacers, rather than the 3 plates i have. I'd definitely want the spacers welded on but. This is their 300 mm kit, $1400 for plain discs, $1550 for drilled and slotted. $1800 for plain 322 mm disc kit ($1950 for 322 mm discs drilled and slotted I estimate shipped).


I looked at their brackets, they only locate in two spots and look like they could flex a lot, not my idea of a performance upgrade. You can see them in lower left of this picture.


The pic below is the one they list for the 330 mm Falcon XW - XF / 67 - 72 Mustang above, but it's a Falcon stub axle as it only has three holes. Again, the locating block doesn't look too rigid.


I'll stick with 3 plates at this stage in 3/8" or 10 mm plate, you can't be too rigid.


66 Convertible 351W+; AOD; 9"

Last edited by Edz66Vert on Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:41 pm; edited 2 times in total

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nassi
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Prop valve setup is very neat. I think the rules vary state to state but I am pretty sure they do not like the handle in an accessible position. Hence the factory one is not a problem.
Keep up the good work.


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Edz66Vert
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nassi wrote
Prop valve setup is very neat. I think the rules vary state to state but I am pretty sure they do not like the handle in an accessible position. Hence the factory one is not a problem.
Keep up the good work.

My master cylinder is disc/drum and has a proportioning valve underneath but I still had some rear brake lockup under panic stops. I figured I may as well fit an adjustable prop valve now while I'm doing new brake lines and big brakes. Rego wants it not to be adjustable and wired off when set (ACT Reg told one guy to cut the knob off once it was set!). My mate doing the lines for me (ex rego inspector) said if they can't see it, they can't question it! Worse case scenario he said is they'll make me fit a cover over it so i can't change it easily. The other option was to run the rear line into the boot and hide it but I think it's well hidden where it is.


66 Convertible 351W+; AOD; 9"

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ozbilt
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If they cared to look up the regulation it would tell them that you can have an adjustable prop valve. It just has to be located so no one can change it from inside the car (ie: while driving).


Kerry

It is easier to get older than it it is to get wiser

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boofhead
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ozbilt wrote
If they cared to look up the regulation it would tell them that you can have an adjustable prop valve. It just has to be located so no one can change it from inside the car (ie: while driving).


Yes - that has always been my understanding. I have also seen many a rego inspector have their own creative interpretations - I have had to fight them on many an occasion in the past. I always won because I knew the regs very well (in the area of concern). Sometimes had to bring the issue up stairs to the senior guys to win though.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Edz66Vert
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Googled ACT and NSW Rego and VSB14, only mention of fitting proportioning valves or modifying brake balance or fitting larger/different brakes/systems says it must be certified.

So rang my engineer, he said no point hiding it, ACT and NSW RTA are good at spotting them when you present a modified vehicle for engineering under VSB14 and it would be in his engineering report anyway. To keep rego happy he said, make a nice cover and secure it with one security screw or cut the head off when set. I'll leave it where it's hidden and make a cover when my brake lines are done. With all the changes I have I have to get it engineered anyway.


66 Convertible 351W+; AOD; 9"

Last edited by Edz66Vert on Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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boofhead
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VSB14

"The brake system selected must provide the correct balance between front and rear. Proportioning valves such as the 'Holden' unit or some after-market valves can be used to correct a small imbalance. Load sensing proportioning valves should be fitted at the rear on utilities and light commercial vehicles. The brake balance between wheels must not result in premature lock-up of front or rear wheels under braking (in particular, premature lock-up of the rear wheels must be avoided)."

So yes you can (as is sensible) use a Proportioning valve (in fact you need to in most cases).

No where did it say any thing about location or position or non adjustable or when said adjustment could or could not occur.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

Last edited by boofhead on Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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