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Mustang Technical Discussion > Mustang Projects > Tim's 65 vert (Caroline) > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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boofhead
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In practice getting a warranty claim to be accepted on an engine where they did not do everything aka drive in drive out is one of lifes most difficult exercises. Especially on a performance build. If you are using a builder that you need to think about the warranty then you need to use another provider. It is best to go about this thinking there is no warranty.


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Last edited by boofhead on Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Shaunp
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Call woody and ask him again, it may have a steel cam who knows, bare in mind also that you've had the engine for a while , he may now accept a Melonised steel gear depending on who the cam is from which now may advocate the use of a steel gear in a street application, I know he will tell you a composite is a waste of time unless its dry sumped AKA Nascar which is where they came from. He will also will tell you to burnish a bronze gear on a wire wheel. Comp also say to use a steel gear on a Sadi cam as it is much harder then normal cast. The biggest issue with a SADI cam is that the austempering process makes them brittle, and are more likely to break under high load than a steel core which can bend and spring back.

Rodney's 408 has a Sadi Voodoo cam and I've run a steel gear on it from day one. When we changed the distributor for an unrelated issue the gears were virtually unmarked, both cam and dissy after several 1000 KM and quite a few passes at Willobank.


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nassi
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The bronze does wear very quickly, too quick for my liking.


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Nuts
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I run a el cheapo dizzy with a steel gear in my roller donk and had a look at the cam and dizzy gear to day and they are fine after 30k.


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Shaunp
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nassi wrote
The bronze does wear very quickly, too quick for my liking.


Thats the idea they really are for race cars that sit at high rpm all the time but do few miles. I know Woody and Rob freshen up the T/A car engines in the off season, rings , bearings lifters, chain dissy gear. They change oil every meeting. They seldom if ever have a failure, and they run the 302s to 7500 and the 351s 7000 as per the rule book. Most of the high end TA cars run a dry sump so the load on the gear is way less ,its just turning the disy.

Interestingly Jag XK engines use a bronze gear it also drives a pump about the same size and type as a windsor pump and it absolutely never ever fails. It maybe because it is down at the bottom of the engine at crank less wear there heaps of oil spray, Its runs off the crank.


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nassi
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That is interesting, the Jag info I mean. In the rally cars two seasons max and most of their miles are during the transport stages, that means speed limit and even city traffic. Probably less than a thousand K's at full tilt.


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xpconnor
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My thinking at this stage is to run a bronze gear at first and see how it goes. At least it is highly unlikely it will do any damage to my cam and if I use a magnetic sump bolt I think that should be enough to stop any of the gear going through the engine as it wears down. After the 300-500 miles break in and when I change the oil I will check the gear and if it is wearing quickly I will go to the next hardest gear which I think is a composite and give that a go. I will still get in touch with Woody again and see what he says but i did double check with him originally about the gear (over 12 months ago) and he was adamant to use bronze. I have to call him again anyway as he was going to tell me which springs to put in my dizzy before I got distracted by babies and everything slowed down.

So while I am back thinking about this does anyone have a dummy's guide to setting the height of the gear on the distributor and any advice on installing it. I think I saw somewhere some guys file a groove in one side of the shaft to allow oil past?


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boofhead
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Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin hence does not get attracted to magnetic sources.
I drill a 30 thou hole in the small welsh plug (may be screw in plug in your block) sealing the right oil feed to the lifters. The provides a constant flow of oil to the cam gear. I would expect the oiling would not be an issue. It is harder to measure when the motor is together so I would measure the distributor and make sure the position is the same when you install the bronze gear. See this for help

performanceparts.ford....lation.pdf


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Shaunp
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xpconnor wrote
My thinking at this stage is to run a bronze gear at first and see how it goes. At least it is highly unlikely it will do any damage to my cam and if I use a magnetic sump bolt I think that should be enough to stop any of the gear going through the engine as it wears down. After the 300-500 miles break in and when I change the oil I will check the gear and if it is wearing quickly I will go to the next hardest gear which I think is a composite and give that a go. I will still get in touch with Woody again and see what he says but i did double check with him originally about the gear (over 12 months ago) and he was adamant to use bronze. I have to call him again anyway as he was going to tell me which springs to put in my dizzy before I got distracted by babies and everything slowed down.

So while I am back thinking about this does anyone have a dummy's guide to setting the height of the gear on the distributor and any advice on installing it. I think I saw somewhere some guys file a groove in one side of the shaft to allow oil past?


If you buy an MSD gear they give you a guide as to where to install it, you need a press. You press it on but not pin it, put it in the engine and you can feel/measure the float by lifting the shaft in the dissy. once happy pin it. I'd still call Ian and ask if he is cool with a melonised steel gear.. Magnet will do nothing with brass gear.


Last edited by Shaunp on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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xpconnor
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Just got off the phone with Woody and a composite gear will be fine. They had been using brass gears up until 12-18 months ago but are now using composite. He said my engine is running a hydraulic roller cam.
Does anyone know if I can get the dizzy gears in Aus or do I just buy one from summit or Jegs and have it shipped?

Also just had a look at the dizzy and I understand now the gear already on it should be in the correct location so I will check it to make sure there is still some end play when in the engine and then if correct just put the new gear back on in the same spot as the old one. Seems easy once you understand it Embarrassed


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Last edited by xpconnor on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Shaunp
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Yeah but the new gears normally are drilled lower so you cant reuse the hole. You have to put them 180 out of so the new hole is a right angle to the old one and drill a new one. If the Dissy is an MSD you'll need to press the gear off and on they are tight as. MSD gears come with good instructions


Last edited by Shaunp on Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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xpconnor
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I have had a bit more contact with Woody about setting up the distributor in regards to the advance springs and stop bushing so will get that sorted when I have a spare second. I also have the cam specs which I will post up here for anyone who is interested but mainly then I know I have them somewhere incase I lose his email.

Cam specs - Crane cam - 286 intake, 294 exhaust. 224 at .050: intake, 232 @ .050 exhaust. Grind No. HR224-339-2S-12.

They did end up going one size bigger with the cam then they had originally anticipated but it should still be good for bottom end performance. Will be interested to hear how it idles.


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hybrid
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Bit bigger than mine. Should have a nice idle without being too crazy.
That's about the size I originally wanted, but didn't have in stock at the time.


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boofhead
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Cool = thanks for that. If you want to find it again at some point in the future.

www.summitracing.com/p.../make/ford

It should be nice. Mild cammy idle - should still rev out to 6000 rpm just past.

Here is the camcard for it.

www.cranecams.com/prod...mp;p=24376


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Last edited by boofhead on Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Shaunp
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I think those cranes are a steel cam as well, it a 363 it will go like a train regardless, what diff do you have and stall?


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