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Q&A > General Tech Advice > Understanding engines > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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Hawko
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So you have the same amount of coolant in the circuit, but if the grout(filler) is taking up space where the coolant once was how does this affect the block temp?


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Shaunp
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Hawko wrote
So you have the same amount of coolant in the circuit, but if the grout(filler) is taking up space where the coolant once was how does this affect the block temp?


The proper stuff is a heat soak, we never had any cooling issues with the Chev in the E type, it just had the stock V12 rad and fans plus the extra tank. Had an electric pump, to cool it in the pitts between runs so we could turn on the fan and the pump. The car was street registered and had AC. never got hot.
This block was filled to the bottom of the welsh plugs.
It used to break the block though the lifter valley & break the ring lands out of the pistons. We had a lot of issues getting each cylinder to fuel correctly / the same, took us a while to work out what was wrong.
The manifold was the problem the runners were too short. It used to start using water and we could not find where, face was Oringed to the head etc, and I made solid copper head gaskets, that I anieled. It would start to crack the block then leak water.


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donoauto
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cage wrote
hybrid wrote
Oh look, it's only $6k Laughing

www.theengineshop.com/...block.html


I'll have two thanks. Outta here!

Don't do it Hybrid, he'll just change his mind to Ford blocks at the last minute................. Wink2


(PRAYER) Oh thank you Wild Turkey American Honey & Cola in those small thin bottles, for giving me the strength to act like a half wit, and say stupid things at inappropriate times, semi-anonymously, on a public forum.
Amen.

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cage
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Harsh


"The simple answer is, even if I have decided I still don't know what to do."

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Nuts
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I can't see the point in reving the shit out of an engine to go from point A to B faster than the other bloke. Ranting I just like the way a good engine sounds! Fap


My Motto - Don't get Caught! If you do, Blame Someone Else!

MUSTANG - Fantastic Not Plastic

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Shaunp
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Nuts wrote
I can't see the point in reving the shit out of an engine to go from point A to B faster than the other bloke. Ranting I just like the way a good engine sounds! Fap


We never dragged the Jag Nuts, we hill climbed it at Mt Cotton & Noosa, and did all the historic street sprints in it. Leyburn, Gatton, Speed on Tweed etc. The broken axle is pulling 2nd gear at Gatton sprints. Got a billet set machined up, to about 50 rockwell, hardness, never broke an other.You didn't have to rev it, it had about 700hp at the wheels at 80% throttle at high 5k RPM, hard limit was set to 7200. It had some balls.
You could get it airbourne coming out of the chicane up hill at speed on tweed.
We started off with a B&M low blow and 4 X 2" SU's so the bonnet would close and if you looked through the bonnet louvers you could see the carbs so it still looked like V12. Then we went to a Lysholme screw blower and injection, It was off it's head then. It would pull the front wheels off the ground in 2nd when turned into New Cleveland Rd up hill from Manly Rd at Tingalpa






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gbx78
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ok not sure if this is a hijack or relavent to this thread .. so then in respect to the above engines discussed .. how do the DOHC 4.6l cobra engines with s/c compare ? that is to say how does a DOHC less capacity engine, according to numbers, seem more powerfull? (granted theres a s/c but still).. they appear to be around similar pricing if not cheaper to obtain with a tremec, alloy heads i think, wiring, complete .. why would one not go down this path? if we are using numbers to compare, these apparently are 390hp factory and ive seen some with some upgrades and push out 400kw at the rear wheels ????

Why would one not go a more modern engine as opposed to old skool
is it mainly the fact the towers would need to be notched (i think) and too many mods to get it to work?

didnt someone on here have one in their classic mustang?


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S[_]SPECT
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Nick68 has a coyote, which is the latest equivalent of the "modular" motors.
www.mustangtech.com.au...t=123.html

Due to the size and angle of the head, tower notching / removal is mandatory. Then nothing on it will match the factory gear, every change to accomodate the motor costs $$.

BTW, the 4.6L "Teminator" motor you're refering to has forged internals and is running 8PSI of boost as stock.. so not really "but still"


Cheers,
Birchy...
Dodgy Bros. Customs

Suspect 67 - www.mustangtech.com.au.../t=52.html

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boofhead
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Agreed with the above. To move that far away from mustang factory set up there is a lot of changes necessary - including the engineering certificate for the changes - so fine for a DIY or someone with a lot of cash. It is an option for sure.

Modern alloy heads, new piston designs, roller cams, after market EFI brings in the majority of the features modern engines have to the old school engine. Super chargers are nothing new. So it is simply a cost, fun to do, just want to, etc balancing act for the owner to make.

I would think it was far easier to get performance parts for our old school engine than a modern Modular engine as well as being less expensive. I see it as simply a personal choice of which direction you want to go.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Shaunp
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Agreed, current GM V8's do pretty well with push rods and 2 valves per cylinder. They are just an evolution of the small block.
But having said that fitting later engines is the essance of hot roding, this is why not many 28 Fords still have a flat head 4 cylinder in them. In the 80's we used to put 186's in FJ holdens and a HR front end with torana discs. Now they fitt supercharged Ecotech V6 commodore motors and 4 speed autos to them, and fabricated front ends (no HR ones left). But that's what it's about. 28-32 fords have been fitted with every evolution of V8 there is, from flatheads, Y blocks, Caddy's, SBC to current GM and ford engines. Just depends how brave you are and if you can be bothered.


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gbx78
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ok cool, i have no intention of doing so, if they can get you can get soo much "reliable" factory power out of a smaller capacity engine why one wouldnt go that path, i didnt realise it was more than just notching the towers etc..

EDIT: i have no idea what i was trying to say there.. i blame it on windows 8


Last edited by gbx78 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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gbx78
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S[_ wrote
SPECT"]

BTW, the 4.6L "Teminator" motor you're refering to has forged internals and is running 8PSI of boost as stock.. so not really "but still"


Sorry, I think my "but still" comment came across wrong or ignorant. I realise the Terminator has the above mentioned but i guess i was wondering as an example would an old school 289 with forged internals and 8psi perform just as good or would it need alot more mods (meaning more $$$ in comparison to a 4.6l in stock form) to get up to scratch and is this because of DOHC technology ..? or moreso the DOHC engines meatier and designed to handle this amount of power? or perhaps you cant really compare them as they arent in the same ballpark ?

i might look for some animations to see how a DOHC works as i dont really know and why it would outperform older technology, that might answer my curiosity.

Sorry if this is a hijack to the original subject.. my curiosity gets the better of me


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boofhead
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It is not a hijack. You want to understand the differences and aspects of an overhead Cam engine. Great - the primary advantage of an Overhead Cam engine is that the valve gear is lighter, it also allows (well far easier) multiple valves per head for one or more functions, e.g., multiple intake or exhaust or both. This increases the port size and hence flow. So it comes back to the direction that modern engine designers have gone to create power.

Modern engines use large ports, high air flow heads with Cams that have high lift and short durations. This means they can get large areas under the curve (taking Cam opening timing) while minimising the overlap to maintain smooth idle with good behaviour and power in the lower RPM ranges. This has been possible due to better knowledge of what works, roller cam technology, port designs, head chamber design improvements and EFI technology. All of these improvements and knowledge is being applied to modern after market parts - so you can get all of the advantages and behaviour of a modern engine in your rebuilt Windsor with the right selection of parts. As Shaun said - the GM LS-X series engine is still a pushrod engine - just using updated modern parts. Just a matter of purchasing the modern designed parts and you can more power while getting better behaviour than what was possible 20 years ago with our (almost) 50 year old engines.

For example, I am rebuilding my Mustang's engine. Top end only as it is still fresh though I am replacing the heads for a better design, installing a roller Cam, and installing programmable EFI system - it is (well will be) an old school yet modern engine. In your case, George, all you need is the Heads and Roller Cam and your engine will feature latest design modern engine parts and have the associated benefits as well.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

Last edited by boofhead on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:27 am; edited 2 times in total

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gbx78
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boofhead wrote
It is not a hijack. You want to understand the differences and aspects of an overhead Cam engine. Great - the primary advantage of an Overhead Cam engine is that the valve gear is lighter, it also allows (well far easier) multiple valves per head for one or more functions, e.g., multiple intake or exhaust or both. This increases the port size and hence flow. So it comes back to the direction that modern engine designers have gone to create power.

Modern engines use large ports, high air flow heads with Cams that have high lift and short durations. This means they can get large areas under the curve (taking Cam opening timing) while minimising the overlap to maintain smooth idle with good behaviour and power in the lower RPM ranges. This has been possible due to better knowledge of what works, roller cam technology, port designs, head chamber design improvements and EFI technology. All of these improvements and knowledge is being applied to modern after market parts - so you can get all of the advantages and behaviour of a modern engine in your rebuilt Windsor with the right selection of parts. As Shaun said - the GM LS-X series engine is still a pushrod engine - just using updated modern parts. Open your wallet and you can have it all as well on your (almost) 50 year old engine.

For example, I am rebuilding my Mustangs engine. Top end only and it is still fresh though I am replacing the heads for a better design, installing a roller Cam, and installing programmable EFI system - it is (well will be) an old school yet modern engine. In your case, George, all you need is the Heads and Roller Cam and your engine will be a latest design modern engine as well.


ok , thats interesting. I remember reading when i was looking at either a c5 or C6 corvette or a 67 mustang, that the corvette was still a pushrod engine.. explains why it retains that old school sound ?


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S[_]SPECT
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gbx78 wrote
S[_ wrote
SPECT"]

BTW, the 4.6L "Teminator" motor you're refering to has forged internals and is running 8PSI of boost as stock.. so not really "but still"


Sorry, I think my "but still" comment came across wrong or ignorant.


I wasnt suggesting that it was, merely that its not apples for apples..
8PSI is equivalent to about a 50% increase in output.. so the Terminators are only putting out roughly 260HP in NA trim.. the blower is doing the rest.
They were made to be reliable, hence why big increases are available..
You could make that easy with a windsor, add the blower and then its apples for apples.. (and the windsor would be cheaper)

An additonal thing to consider.. is weight.. All the extra head gear has weight to it.. add the blower and cast iron block, and the Terminators are around the 700 pound mark (or as heavy as a big block) as opposed to a 8.2" windsor, which is around 460 pounds (with iron heads no less..)

If you want hotrodding, consider this.. the LS1, capable of 400 HP in NA form with factory internals, weighs the same as a 289.. and doesnt require tower mods. (but the purists will hate you)


Cheers,
Birchy...
Dodgy Bros. Customs

Suspect 67 - www.mustangtech.com.au.../t=52.html

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