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Mustang Technical Discussion > Pre 1973 > Brakes will not self bleed > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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ND69
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I read all the info on the forum in regards to bleeding brakes, but I am at a loss.

On the 69 coupe when I replaced the front hoses there was a little fluid loss, but it did not empty the master cylinder, however with the bleed nipples open there is no flow, Argh any advice?
The calipers were refurbished by previous owner in the US


Also what is the best grease to use in the ball joints?


Thanks
ND


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hybrid
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Are you pumping the pedal up before opening the nipple?


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ND69
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Nah, I am trying Kerry's self bleed method as described in


(http://www.mustangtech.com.au/Forums/viewtopic/t=391/postdays=0/postorder=asc/highlight=brake+bleeding/start=0.html)


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hybrid
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Ok.. doing that didn't completely bleed the brakes for me.

I needed the pressure created by pumping to fully move all the air from the calipers.


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66ROX
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Might be some crap blocking the bleed nipples. Pull them out and check the little holes are clear.


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MustangMedic
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Check the proportioning valve hasn't moved and therefore causing a the fluid to move more slowly as the line is obstructed by the valve to prevent total brake failue by loosing the fluid from both resvoirs. The same issue happened to me when I tried to pressure bleed the system with my new calipers, repositioned the valve and replaced the globe(on my 67) and all was good and they bleed as Kerry described.


Cheers.
Medic
(Always work smarter not harder!!!)
67 C Code coupe
97 SN-95 Convertible

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ozbilt
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It is your metering block & not the proportioning valve that will have had the shaft move. That happens when you pump brakes trying to bleed them & only one end of the cars system is working OK. It is a safety thing as when there is an issue with one end of the car (fluid gets out via a burst seal or split hose) then the pressure of the good side moves that shaft blocking the faulty end.

In your case it will have blocked the front of the system.



First is your calipers, the bleed screw should be horizontal, not in a vertical state when the caliper is in place. If it is vertical, then the calipers are on the wrong side, swap them.

The metering block. Take it out if you suspect it has moved the shaft & luckily for you it is a 69. They have a nut on one end that you can undo & using a pin remover you can tap it back in position. To do that you place another pin punch through the small hole after taking out the brake switch on the top of that block & you will feel it drop slightly as you get someone to tap the valve into place "gently".

I did this with jbb on Q yesterday. If you want more info, call me as I am in the shed all day.


Kerry

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Ausjacko
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Hi ND
I knew taking this photo would come in handy one day.
Here is an exploded view of the distribution block (with how the piston should sit in relation to the body. Note the switch prong is extended into the valley of the piston, not making a contact. If the piston moves one way or the other, due to loss of pressure in the system as Medic and Kerry explained, then the piston pushes the switch prong up and makes a circuit- read brake warning light comes on.


'68 J-code GT Fastback
'67 S-code GT coupe, 'Pink Bitz' formerly known as 'Hookin' up a brother'
'69 M_____ GTS Fastback 'Blasted'

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ozbilt
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I can tell you all that Neil & his young bloke got the metering block all squared away & are now onto the next issue.


Kerry

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ND69
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Thanks Ausjacko, great photo..

I've been on the phone to Kerry seeking help at every stage today; I removed the metering block and reset the piston. I checked the switch, all, blew through the lines and all were clear, after re assembly there was still no flow, so I disconnected the lines from the master cylinder and still gravity was not behaving..
I dissembled the MS and all seems ok, if I operate the plunger there was pressure at the outlet... so I've hit the wall until the one with the knowledge comes along with the answer. The exit path through the MS is hard to see.




Cheers
ND


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66ROX
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They following is pretty rare but can happen.

Not sure what set up you have, but if no booster behind master cyl. If the master cylinder pushrod is over adjusted it will move the master cylinder piston forward and cover the compensating port (the small hole in pic above) thus gravity bleed will not work. Check that pushrod attaching to the brake pedal arm has free play.

If you have booster behind master cylinder the same prob can be created by the booster pushrod not being set to correct length.

Usually if the above is occuring the front brakes can build up pressure and hold the brake on untill the car stops.

As i said, a long shot.


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Ausjacko
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Hi Neil, I don't envy you taking that bloody distribution block off. I spent two 'quality hours' trying to get one bloody line back on a while back.
I like Kerry's approach with Q- take the motor out and stand in the engine bay to do it.
If the lines and bleed screws/nipples are clear there does not leave too much else in the brake circuit that could be the problem other than the MC.
Let us know how you go.


'68 J-code GT Fastback
'67 S-code GT coupe, 'Pink Bitz' formerly known as 'Hookin' up a brother'
'69 M_____ GTS Fastback 'Blasted'

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ND69
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Thanks for the tip 66ROX, I checked the pedal and there is approx 10mm free play.

Yeah Ausjacko, one has to be a bit nibble, and patient, laying onlong the the fender was the best postion, I had to take the MS out to use the Vise grips on one nipple, it was a lot easier if you used a shifter to hold the block while loosening and tightening the nipples. I had trouble with one line Dah wrong hole..

Any way their is no gravity at my home, no movement overnight, so I made a crude vacuum with a broke blow gun, the gun did not shut of so low constant vaccuum, and action brakes bled it still took a while.


now to change the rear hose.....and do it again. and the have a Drink


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Nuts
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I recently had the same problem and it turned out that both front hoses had collapsed internally, probably from being clamped over a long period. Replaced the hoses and all good.


My Motto - Don't get Caught! If you do, Blame Someone Else!

MUSTANG - Fantastic Not Plastic

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ozbilt
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Nuts wrote
I recently had the same problem and it turned out that both front hoses had collapsed internally, probably from being clamped over a long period. Replaced the hoses and all good.


You can see in Neil's pic above that there are new hoses already installed.

Neil, 66ROX was talking about the depth the rod from the booster was going into the master. However we talked about that aluminium "breather" spacer, so I know that uou still have factory settings on the whole system.

Setting up the master in a vice & bench bleeing it into itself is always a good thought.


Kerry

It is easier to get older than it it is to get wiser

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