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Mustang Technical Discussion > Mustang Projects > 69 CJ build and other cars > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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boofhead
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He is using a 460 big block and the heads have raised exhaust ports. So taller block and raised ports obviously raised the location of the headers/header bolts.

Your right obviously it would help with a little 302/347 in the bay.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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hybrid
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Forgot about the shelby drop. That probably lowered my bolts down right into the middle of the header pipes.


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MaxPower
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I put a standard head from a 390 next to a new Edelbrock head to compare any differences. I'll use the stock head to dummy up. The new alloy heads can stay safe tucked away.



I remember reading somewhere that the Edelbrock heads were wider pushing the headers out. But after measuring them up, this was proved wrong. There was no difference. In fact I could only find one difference and that was the port position. The exhaust manifold bolt holes are in the same position on both heads so the 390 head will work fine to dummy up with.
Here you can see the post position difference.









I cut out some cardboard to act as a gasket and dropped a head on.



It was soon apparent that notching the tops of the shock towers as seen in the link posted earlier was not going to do a lot with the FE engine. Just as Hybrid thought it would be with his car.





I put a piece of tape to mark the UCS bolt holes. The top of the tape is in line with the top of the bolt holes



Here you can see just how close the heads are and this is with the hacked brace on the towers.



I think if I were to shape them to notch it lower than the previous examples, the area within the tape I've placed, taking it back flush with the UCA mount, then it would give considerate extra space. The lower piece of tape is still the piece marking the UCA holes.







"There's 3 ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but faster!"

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boofhead
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The work you are doing is excellent in terms of laying out the engine and measuring. They are tight as in there for sure. It is dead easy to have a 351W far larger than your 390 take less space, lighter, costs less and easier to get performance out of it. Though the 351w is not a Big Block so indeed carry on.

The port changes help the exhaust flow, the original port have a long and low short side port is not good for flow. Hence they removed it in the Edelbrock version.

Keep up the good work on the photos. I know Steve has a number of pics with his exhaust install that might help - as I said tight it is.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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MaxPower
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Cheers, Boofhead. This will not be a 390 though. It'll be a 462. I just have a few 390 heads in the shed which is why I used them.

The car is a 428CJ. It was rebuilt and it turned into a disaster when I brought it. About the only thing I think I am reusing is the CJ block and some bolt on stuff. The rest is being replaced with new.

If I were to start from scratch with an empty hole for an engine bay, I'd do a stroked 351W as well. I had one in my F150 and it was a pleasure to work on.

I've seen Steve's exhaust build. I've referred back to his build a few times in past. It's not going to be an easy task. Should be fun and a pain in the butt all at the same time.


"There's 3 ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but faster!"

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boofhead
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MaxPower wrote
Should be fun and a pain in the butt all at the same time.


Love the approach - and yes it will be Sweet and Sour - though like Steves build - well worth it in the end. I will say that BBs sounds so good when they are running. Fap


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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MaxPower
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I mocked up the top loader mount with some dowels in line with the T56 mount position. There is a little bit of sag in the dowel but I couldn't find anything else that I had laying around to use. It's just to give an idea.





I lifted the trans up until it hit the cross member.



There is still stacks of room around the firewall with only the vent tube just touching. Photos from left to right.







I put a straight edge on the bottom of the top loader mount to measure to the centre of the output shaft. I got 105mm.





and 380mm from the mount bolt centres to the end of output shaft



With a straight edge on the top of the trans crossmember, low and behold, I got 105mm. Yes, it is not accurate but it just went to show that it is close and should work with no mods to the floor pan but definitely some to the cross member. So I think I will remove and reposition the cross member inline with the T56 mount.
There will also be a little more clearance here for the cross member over that section of the extension housing but I think I will section out the middle and replate it higher for some more room.



It'll also mean the stock e-brake cable wont work but that got me thinking of going to a floor mounted unit instead. I don't know about others but doing hill starts in a manual car with a foot operated e-brake sucks. Especially in one that has a grumpy engine and a very on/off clutch.
And for those who have RHD stangs, it's near impossible. It was the weirdest feeling yet when I drove my mates RHD 70 Mach 1 with a grumpy 393C. To take your right foot off the brake pedal to push the e-brake on is not convenient.

I also measured the shifter location in comparison to the top loader and it looks like this T56 will move the shifter centre back 125mm.

While I was there thinking about what to do, I also considered the speedo. T56 has no spot for a speedo drive as the car used the front right ABS sender for a pulse. Aside from setting up some type of magnetic pickup and then going to an electronic speedo unit or a gear drive to drive the cable, the only other option I can think of is a GPS speedo. Something like this looks good and would be cheaper and easier than a magnetic pick up and definitely cheaper than swapping out the rear extension housing and output shaft. Just not sure on the legalities here in Aus.

www.speedhut.com/gauge...uge-120mph


"There's 3 ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but faster!"

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ozbilt
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I did one years ago (in California) on a 67 Mustang fastback. Engine bay is the same dimensionally (internally) as the 69 (in fact towers are the same with only the top, where the fender bolts to, being different). It was going to be a stroked 351 Windsor, so not a BB.

I don't think I ever got to make the trans mount & was probably thinking of moving that trans rail back to meet it.

Pics here .....

s728.photobucket.com/u...amp;page=1

Note, I increased the size of the tunnel buy lifting it an 1 1/2".

It was the first (& last) RRS setup I installed. I was the Northern Californian fit center for them & it almost sent me broke trying to sort the issues (including a return airfare to Sydney to get info & sort delivery issues).


Kerry

It is easier to get older than it it is to get wiser

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unilec5544
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Looking at the last pic, you definitely need to get the box higher at the back. Which means getting the cross member higher.


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MaxPower
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Thanks for the pics, Kerry. They are helpful.

It'll definitely have more room to go higher once the crossmember is removed. I think the floor will be ok though as is. But will no for sure though once the crossmember comes out and repositioned back.


"There's 3 ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but faster!"

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MaxPower
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And it's out.



To get to the spot welds to drill them out, I cut the cross member in 3.



Which meant I had to weld it back together. I haven't done much TIG welding on mild steel and it's been about 18 months since I have had a go at it. Was happy with the result though I think.





And it looks like the penetration was ok. I realised though I should have cleaned up both sides of the surfaces better.



And after the welds were cleaned up with a roloc disc.



I clamped it into a rough position.



But it fit better with the trans support reversed as it cleared the shifter better. But I don't think this support will work unless it is modified a little as it hits the right side of the mount on the extension housing.



After I removed the cross member from its original position, I was able to raise the trans about 10mm at the firewall. Now with the cross member in this position with trans hard up against the firewall, this is how much clearance there is now. Now just to figure out exactly where the trans needs to sit and I can work out what needs to be done with the floor pan.



"There's 3 ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but faster!"

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Shaunp
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Good work mate, that's exactly how I would have done it. You'll just have to roll up a fresh tunnel to suit. Those boxes get hot they need air around them or they wont shift correctly, some need a cooler. TKO and T56 don't like heat.


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MaxPower
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Cheers, Shaun. Good to know I'm heading in the right direction.


"There's 3 ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but faster!"

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MaxPower
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I made some measurements of the top loader to attempt to gauge the angle of the output shaft in relation of the pad for the crossmember mount to calculate where the pad for the T56 shold be positioned.

In order to make a little sense of my scribblings on paper, I made a basic drawing on sketchup of my reference points. To save pulling apart the top loader to find a centre of the output shaft, I printed out a copy of the gasket used the 2 side bolts as reference. For some reason it wanted to adjust one of the measurements to a crazy decimal value so please ignore that.

I found the fall from front to back of the output shaft a measly 2mm, not a lot be concerned about I think.

The thickness of the top loader mount is 35mm.



Here is the basic measurement for the T56



With the T56 in its current position lifted as high as it can against the firewall and the tunnel crossmember clamped into position, there is 33mm between the bottom of the mount pad and the top loader crossmember. This means it is sitting 11mm lower in comparison to where the top loader sat in its original position.

There is still roughly 10mm of clearance above the extension housing to the tunnel crossmember which is pretty good. But with the trans siting hard against the firewall, some clearance will be needed there and continued along the tunnel.


"There's 3 ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but faster!"

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MaxPower
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I spent some time today working on the tunnel cross member. I sectioned out the very top of it to give the trans some more clearance. I've gained about 18mm in doing this. This should now allow about 15mm of clearance between the trans in its final position.
I still have to tidy up some of the tight corners, there's a few low points and a couple of pin holes but it's getting close. I haven't done much of this and am really enjoying the practice.





"There's 3 ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yeah, but faster!"

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