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Q&A > General Tech Advice > Cam for 289/302 Windsor > Community Forums > Mustang Forum Australia - Mustang Tech

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Shayne93
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Excuse my ignorance/lack of knowledge on these older motors, I'm more familiar with OHC motors but....

My engine is being reassembled after a freshen up and I want to get a cam to give it a nice tough idle. nothing too serious that's going to throw rods or bend valves. Power gain isn't an issue, I'm looking mainly for a nice tough exhaust sound.

Motor has 600 Holley and I will be running Headers/Extractors.
C4 Trans with 3.23 diff ratio.

The bloke putting the motor together has suggested solid lifters aswell.

Has anyone got a suggestion for a good streetable cam that will provide a good sound?

Cheers,
Shayne Smile


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boofhead
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Solid lifters when your it appears to me you only want a mild engine!!! Sounds like odd advice to me. You must have adjustable valve gear for solids. I hope your prepared to adjust the lash quite often - you prepared to it? Any way, lots of factors when picking a Cam.

So tell use more about your engine.

What is being done?
What stroke (standard 302 or 331, 347)?
What heads [Standard or aftermarket] (Valves, Springs installed, rocker gear?
Pistons (Type and level of Valve reliefs cut into them)?
Compression ratio?
Ignition system being used?
What rear gear ratio do you have? OK 3.23
What converter and its flash point, e.g., Standard or 3000 Rpm, or 4500 Rpm?
What sort of rev range are you expecting?
What type of realistic use of the car will you have, e.g., track racing, drag racing, aggressive street driving, street cruising?

Just for my curiosity - What Solid flat tappet Cam has the engine builder suggested?


I would not normally suggest a (flat tappet) solid lifter Cam these days - I cannot see the point unless your have specific purposes for the engine/car.

Not trying to be smart but if you can provide some of the above then I (and a few others) will suggest possible options to consider.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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hybrid
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I mentioned in the engine thread that the "good sound" mostly comes from the cam characteristics.. and generally, the "better" the sound, the less streetable the car is going to be.


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Shayne93
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The motor is having new rings and bearings put in, it had 13000ks on it since a rebuild. Oil sender broke off and pumped enough oil out to do some slight bearing damage, crank is having a grind done on it. ---I think...

Its a 66 289 block with 302 stroke.
Standard heads.
The torque converter looks fairly good (trans was only 13000ks since rebuild also), the converter is orange too - that is all I know.
MSD ignition.

Basically want a street crusier, after this (and thoughts about 6 months ago) leaning towards the stock camshaft in it, I feel this is less drama.
The bloke putting it together I gather doesn't particularly want to change the cam in it, he is doing the freshen up as a favour for the bloke I bought the motor off


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hybrid
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If he's doing main bearings, the cam is a doddle.

You should be able to safely go mild hydraulic without changing anything else.


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Shaunp
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You don't want solids they are pretty hard on the valve train. Get something like a 214/224 @ 50 thou hydralic or similar, make sure you springs can take the lift.


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Shaunp
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middle one is the one you want

www.ebay.com.au/itm/FO...5d39c5c08b


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Shayne93
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I did have a look at those Shaun, good value too I recon. What is everyones opinion of those with stock valve springs?


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Shaunp
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Depends on the lift of the cam, if they don't bind at the max lift they will work, that's not to say the won't float before max power. You probably just want a new spring with a damper similar to what's in a 308 holden.
Have a look at The Crow Cams web site as well they have a couple of real nice windosr cams, and they sell springs to suit from memory. Tighe cams in Brisbane have a couple ones as well, you can ring Dean Tighe and he will make you a cam do to what ever you want. Tighe Cams have a web site to. As young rev head in Brisbane in the 80's the only cams I'd ever heard of was Tighe, Wade, and from the US Isky. 402 Tighe solid was wickered in a hot holden red motor with 3 SU carbs, as long as it had 11:1 compression.


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Shaunp
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From Crow cams this is a nice street cam,will need better springs

www.crowcams.com.au/


grind number 15665
IN. 30/70
EX.79/31
280/290 advertied duration
214/224 @ 050
112 centers
0.475" inlet lift
0.502" EX lift
2100-5200 rev power range
K1503 Maximum performance & driveability in
street modified engines

or this one from Tighe Cams in Brisbane.

Grind 343B

70 30 /30 70
280 280
220 220 .
479" .479" H

Similar cams, the Crow one gives some extra exhaust to compensate for the stock heads. But the Tighe cam lifts quicker, and has more inlet, would give a higher cylinder pressure I'd say may be more prone to pinging, but would be a strong cam. Both will need springs, both will work fine, 30/70 cams with 1/2" lift always works well in just about any engine on the street and will have a noticable lopey idle, at around 900 rpm. These are as hot a flat tappet you can go really for ok street manners. Thes will be pretty strong in the mid range to 5k.

Other than these look at a similar Comp cams Dual energy, not an Extreame energy they wipe lobes. These cams will go better than the Blue racer.


Last edited by Shaunp on Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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boofhead
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One thing leads to the next and so forth. That's what happen when you start modifying stuff (especially engines).

Some of the above suggestions are worth considering. I am not that keep on balanced lobs (same intake as exhaust) as all Windsors need help on the exhaust side. So for a more realistic upgrade might be a XE256H

www.summitracing.com/p.../make/ford

or a little more with the XE262H

www.summitracing.com/p.../make/ford

In both cases you will need to change the springs. This is an easy job and frankly I hope your changing them anyway because springs that are 47 years old your shot and to soft for a stock Cam. So purchase it at a Kit with Cam, springs and Lifters. Makes to job easy and inexpensive.

Comp cams does have the Thumper Cam series which is designed to have the rough idle. Lots of exhaust duration and intake overlap to get the desired rough old school idle (or chose an old school grind). I would not bother with one but it is an option.

Lastly, if you would like a roller Cam them maybe the XE258HR or bigger

www.summitracing.com/p.../make/ford

At the level we are talking about I am not sure it is worth the extra expense to go with the HR (though I would but that's me).

There are other brands of Cams which would be valid to use.


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Shaunp
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Dave
I don't like XE flat tappets, 256 maybe ok but 262 and up , they have steep ramps, they don't last long, They are a fudge anyway you think you are buying a bigger cam then you are. I have one here I keep to show people with 2 lobes gone off it in quick time. The comp Cam Dual engery's are a better for longer life.


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boofhead
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One of the reasons I do not like flat tappet Cam is that the oils today are not design for them (to low a level of zinc). Sure you can get it if you search around. Higher ramp rates does have higher lobe load and higher wear might be a problem depending on your goals. Obviously loosing two lobes is not what you would expect though. High ramp rates are harder on the gear hence rollers are a much better choice.

I agree the XE range do have an aggressive lobe I also agree the Dual Energy range is less aggressive and have my preferred dual pattern lobes (more lift and duration in the exhaust). So sure a Dual Energy might be a better choice.

www.summitracing.com/p.../make/ford


I will someday think of something clever to say.

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Shayne93
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boofhead wrote
In both cases you will need to change the springs. This is an easy job and frankly I hope your changing them anyway because springs that are 47 years old your shot and to soft for a stock Cam. So purchase it at a Kit with Cam, springs and Lifters. Makes to job easy and inexpensive.


The motor only had 13000ks since a rebuild (that's when it was turned into a 302 internally) so the springs would have been changed then.

However it would appear anything 'better' than the crane cam Shaun suggested (although it is borderline on this) will need a spring change, which isn't such a big deal. As previously suggested, it starts to become something of 'where do you stop'.
If only I could win the lotto.....


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Shaunp
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Springs are pretty cheap easy to swap while the engine is down. The issue is that if they bind due the extra lift or float then they are toast. I am stripping a 308 "original Brock" motor(rebuilt by the Brock shop as well) that has floated the valves on a big free rev, the result is aT least 1 bent push rod and the head of number 4 exhaust valve has come off. So this is probably a full rebuild caused by weak springs not suited to the cam. Once the valves float and the springs flutter they are toast. Hoping the piston doesn't have big hole it. What was a quick low milage engine destroyed by the incorrect springs. I watched him break it, big rev in neutral, nailed it, up the road, pop from the exhuast when when into 2nd, he said it made whiring noise then rattled, shut it down.
The moral of the story is don't never assume old springs are any good and don't free rev an engine. It can get expensive.

If running a flat tappet Penrite HPR 30, 40 has plenty of zinc, PM has about 60% more, or they will blend what you want they will deliver it to your door.


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